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Dogs in Our WorldExploring the human-dog bond through science-based training, behavior insights, and heartwarming stories Author: Adam Winston
Fieldnotes is where science, story, and lived experience converge. Explore podcast episodes, articles, and resources that deepen our understanding of dogs through empathy, behavior, and advocacy. Language: en-us Genres: Kids & Family, Nature, Pets & Animals, Science Contact email: Get it Feed URL: Get it iTunes ID: Get it |
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Julie Forbes: Dogs & Leadership
Episode 5
Saturday, 1 November, 2025
Episode Summary In this episode of Dogs in Our World, host Adam Winston sits down with Julie Forbes, host and producer of the Dog Show with Julie Forbes, to explore the theme of "Dogs and Leadership." Julie shares her extensive experience in dog training and behavior, emphasizing the importance of non-verbal communication, presence, and emotional tone in effective leadership with dogs. They discuss common misconceptions about leadership styles, including the outdated "alpha" model, and highlight the value of motivation, fun, and individualized approaches tailored to each dog's unique temperament and needs. Julie and Adam also explore how lessons learned from working with dogs can translate to human leadership and personal growth. The episode concludes with a focus on self-awareness, authenticity, and the power of being present, offering listeners practical wisdom to enhance their relationships with their dogs and others. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own leadership styles and consider how they can foster healthier, more respectful connections with their canine companions. The episode also provides information on where to listen to Julie's Dog Show and invites the audience to stay connected through Dogs in Our World's social channels and newsletter. Read on for key takeaways, resource links, and the full transcript. Key Takeaways Leadership with dogs requires awareness of non-verbal communication and presence. The outdated "alpha" dominance model is misleading; a parental leadership approach is healthier. Every dog is unique; leadership and motivation must be tailored to individual temperaments and needs. Fear is an ineffective motivator; positive motivation and fun foster better learning and relationships. Setting a calm and consistent emotional tone is key to effective leadership Resources & Links The Dog Show with Julie Forbes — Julie’s radio show and podcast with over 400 episodes. Sensitive Dog — Julie Forbes’ dog training and behavior consulting website. Episode Transcript Show Transcript Introduction Welcome to episode number five of Dogs in Our World. We’re going learn about thetopic of Dogs and Leadership. Stay tuned at the end of today’s show for some specialannouncements I have to share with you about upgrades and new offerings fromdogsinourworld.comOk. The first part of today’s show will revisit a familiar term you may rememberfrom our first episode and we’ll also better understand why leadership is necessary. Inpart 2, we’ll talk about the importance of motivation and we’ll briefly address anotherJULIE FORBES:DOGS AND LEADERSHIP558huge debate in the dog training world, and we’ll learn about the importance of havingfun. In the final part of today’s show, our guest will share with us ways that we can positionourselves to be better leaders.Ok. Let’s get started… Part 1: Understanding Leadership and Dogs Part 1: Dogs and Leadership Julie: My name is Julie Forbes. I'm the host and producer of the Dog Show with Julie Forbes, which is a local radio show here in Western Washington and also a podcast on iTunes and on our website, which is dogradioshow.com, SoundCloud, and on our Facebook page. I've been on-air for 8 years, I think, now. It was 2009. Adam: I actually did the math. I looked at your website and, yes, and I did the math. It's been 8 years. Julie: 424 episodes I think. It's so fun. Like you, I like to talk about dogs. And, it's interesting, because a lot of times people will ask "it's an hour show? don't you run out of things to talk about?" Actually, it's the opposite. The more people that I talk with, the more there is to talk about. It's an educational show. Sort of an intellectual conversation, but all somehow connected to dogs. I also work locally here in Seattle and somewhat via skype helping people with training and behavior. My company is called sensitive dog. Adam: And do you have a website? Julie: sensitivedog.com. Adam: Do you have any other books or anything that the listeners can check out if they want to learn more about you? Julie: So, I am just about finished writing my first book. It's been almost 5 years of working and researching on it. And, it's really truly just about done. I've said that many times over the years. It's a humbling experience writing a book. But, I'm excited about that and it's a bit of a hybrid of the book. I weave my years of experience working with people and their dogs. And, also my own personal experience as a human being. As well as research that I did mostly on leadership, which is what we'll be talking about today. And, what dogs can teach us about leadership and ourselves. Because they're non-verbal, to be effective with dogs, we have to be aware of our non-verbal communication, which means being aware of and in our bodies, which is not a given for people. Our relationship with our bodies is complex as well. It's geared more towards women, but the conversation certainly isn't. So, it's been a challenge to weave all that information together in a way that makes sense and that's what I finally figured out. As Julie and I began our conversation, she immediately addressed a topic that should be familiar to our listeners. Remember when Erik, from Wolf Haven International, and I talked about the term Alpha and how viewing ourselves or dogs as such can essentially lead to an unbalanced relationship? I also said that the subject is nearly unavoidable when learning about dogs. Here’s Julie’s take… Julie: Well, working with dog behavior sort of requires a focus on the topic of leadership and really the question of it. Because, in this industry, and I'm sure you know with your experience in training as well, the industry is not regulated. It's trying to be regulated, but it's not regulated for better or worse. There's a lot of confusion and a lot of disagreement around what is right in leadership as it pertains to dogs. So, you know the word you hear a lot is “alpha”, which has a negative connotation to it now. There's a lot of pushback, which makes perfect sense. There's some interesting history around that as far as the ideas that were marketed in the context of our relationship with dogs and sort of looking at models of wolf packs and deriving how we should be with dogs and based off that. But, the research that was done and the model that was taken from that particular research was done on captive wolves. So, they were forced pack. And this was spelled out actually very clearly in Temple Grandin's book Animals Make Us Human. Adam: And episode one of Dogs in Our World. (laughs) Julie: Nice. So, it's interesting that in forced packs there is more of a rigid hierarchy that forms, because they're not related… Julie: So, this whole idea of Alpha and this sort of ladder structure of leadership, which you can see, in this country anyway, applied everywhere. Corporations, Religion Adam: School. Julie: Exactly. And, um, and then in the dog training world. And, it's interesting to me why the research done on captive wolves was the one marketed to the general public and not the research done on wolves in the wild. Because, imagine the difference. What a different conversation we would be in in the world of the dog training, if it wasn't "alpha", but more of a parental understanding. More of a parental dynamic, which we can relate to. There's ways that can get us into trouble. Julie: Dogs aren't human children, but there's a lot of those dynamics that are really natural. You are responsible for your dog's wellbeing. You are therefore the one in charge. Whether you like it or not, that is your role. They need us to be. This is a human world and lot of dogs would feel overwhelmed, if they felt like they were in charge even if they tried to be, just like kids. So, that's kind of why did I focus on this. Because, it's part of the conversation in coaching people in their relationship with dogs. Adam: If you’re listening, right now, and thinking to yourself “well, I don’t have a dog” or “I’m not in a position of leadership”. Then, I want you think about how nearly every time Julie mentions the word “dogs” in this episode about Leadership, you can likely get away with replacing the word “dogs” with “humans”. As I’ve said before, this show is for everyone whether you have a dog or not. As we continue, think about how the stuff we’re talking about and how it can be applied to those of you who are not just dog owners, but maybe parents or employees. Adam: I really want to learn and I want to share with everybody who's listening about how we could either be better leaders or how we can better work with those that we serve. Julie: Mmhmm. Yeah. And that alone is sort of a philosophy of leadership where you are of service to those you lead. Versus maybe a polar opposite would be a bully type style. I'm going to keep you down so that I maintain my position at the top. That's rooted in insecurity. It's really not authentic true leadership. I think there's a lot more out about bullying types of leadership. It's unfortunately effective, because it targets people that are afraid and that's how the bully stays in power. Adam: And leadership is a skill that has to be practiced, right. If we're someone who hasn't had much experience as a leader or in leadership positions. Do we have to be leaders? Julie: Depends on the dogs. Some dogs don't need much. They don't test boundaries much. They're just easy. They're easy going. They don't have much in the way of challenges. They're happy when someone new comes over to the house. They're not reactive on leash. The things that many dogs are challenged with. It really depends on the individual. You could turn it to the human world. Well, does a child need a parent to be in charge? Well, yeah. If the child is sick, who pays for it? Who acquires the food? Who pays for it?
