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The Peaceful Parenting PodcastPeaceful parenting with calm and confidence for your spirited, highly-sensitive, strong-willed, or neurodivergent child- and support for YOU. Author: Sarah Rosensweet
Welcome to the Peaceful Parenting Podcast, the podcast where Sarah Rosensweet covers the tools, strategies and support you need to end the yelling and power struggles and encourage your kids to listen and cooperate so that you can enjoy your family time. Each week, Sarah will bring you the insight and information you need to make your parenting journey a little more peaceful. Whether it's a guest interview with an expert in the parenting world, insight from Sarah's own experiences and knowledge, or live coaching with parents just like you who want help with their challenges, we'll learn and grow and laugh and cry together! Be sure to hit the subscribe button and leave a rating and review! sarahrosensweet.substack.com Language: en Genres: Kids & Family, Parenting Contact email: Get it Feed URL: Get it iTunes ID: Get it |
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All About Meltdowns: Episode 227
Tuesday, 9 June, 2026
You can listen wherever you get your podcasts or check out the fully edited transcript of our interview at the bottom of this post.In this episode of The Peaceful Parenting Podcast, I interviewed Hayden Ahlbrandt, a certified Synergetic Play Therapist. Hayden shares some really helpful thoughts and strategies on both how we can prevent meltdowns and how best to support our child—and ourselves—once we find ourselves with a meltdown on our hands. We focus on connection, co-regulation, mindfulness, and creating safety.Know someone who might appreciate this episode? Share it with them!And if you love the podcast, FREE ways to help us out:1- Rate and review the podcast in your podcast player app2- “Like” this post by tapping the heart icon ♥️3- Share this with a friend. THANK YOU!We talk about:* 00:00 – Sarah introduces Hayden Ahlbrandt, certified Synergetic Play Therapist. Overview of meltdowns, regulation, and co-regulation* 05:25 – Viewing behavior through a nervous system lens* 10:30 – Understanding Meltdowns Through the “Pop Bottle” Analogy* 12:00 – Why some days kids can handle more than others* 1:00 – “Regulation Is Connection to Self” - Helping kids discover what naturally regulates them* 20:00 – Why Regulation Tools Need to be Practiced Outside Meltdowns* 22:00 – Preventing Meltdowns* 24:00 – The Three Rs: Regulate, Relate, Reason* 30:00 – Mindfulness and Co-Regulation* 32:30 – The Parent’s Nervous System* 36:00 – Aggression During Meltdowns* 38:30 – Making the Environment Feel Safer* 42:00 – Parenting Advice Hayden Wishes He’d Known EarlierResources mentioned in this episode:* Hayden’s website * Hayden’s IG @lowtideplaytherapist* Synergetic Play Therapy Institute* Yoto Screen Free Audio Book Player* The Peaceful Parenting Membership* Evelyn & Bobbie brasConnect with Sarah Rosensweet:* Instagram* Facebook Group* YouTube* Website* Join us on Substack* Newsletter* Book a short consult or coaching session callxx Sarah and CoreyYour peaceful parenting team- click here for a free short consult or a coaching sessionVisit our website for free resources, podcast, coaching, membership and more!>> Please support us!!! Please consider becoming a supporter to help support our free content, including The Peaceful Parenting Podcast, our free parenting support Facebook group, and our weekly parenting emails, “Weekend Reflections” and “Weekend Support” - plus our Flourish With Your Complex Child Summit (coming back in the fall for the 3rd year!) All of this free support for you takes a lot of time and energy from me and my team. If it has been helpful or meaningful for you, your support would help us to continue to provide support for free, for you and for others.In addition to knowing you are supporting our mission to support parents and children, you get the podcast ad free and access to a monthly ‘ask me anything’ session.Our sponsors:YOTO: YOTO is a screen free audio book player that lets your kids listen to audiobooks, music, podcasts and more without screens, and without being connected to the internet. No one listening or watching and they can’t go where you don’t want them to go and they aren’t watching screens. BUT they are being entertained or kept company with audio that you can buy from YOTO or create yourself on one of their blank cards. Check them out HEREEvelyn & Bobbie bras: If underwires make you want to rip your bra off by noon, Evelyn & Bobbie is for you. These bras are wire-free, ultra-soft, and seriously supportive—designed to hold you comfortably all day without pinching, poking, or constant adjusting. Check them out HERESarah: Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Peaceful Parenting Podcast.Today’s guest is Hayden Ahlbrandt. Hayden is a certified Synergetic Play Therapist who lights up at any opportunity to teach, educate, and support adults in how they can best support the children in their lives.He specializes in meltdowns, and that’s what we’re going to be talking about today. Hayden shares some really helpful thoughts and strategies on both how we can prevent meltdowns and how best to support our child—and ourselves—once we find ourselves with a meltdown on our hands.I think you’re going to find this episode really useful, no matter how old your child is. One thing I really appreciate is that Hayden sees meltdowns through the lens of the nervous system and in terms of regulation, dysregulation, and co-regulation.I’m definitely going to be thinking about a phrase he shared: “Regulation is connection to self.”If you like this episode, please share it with a friend. Word of mouth is the best way to get more eyes and ears on the podcast.If you’re a fan of the podcast, you can help us out not only by sharing it, but by leaving a review and a five-star rating in your podcast player app. While you’re there, don’t forget to follow the show so you don’t miss an episode.If you’d like to support us even more, you can become a supporter on Substack to help us offset the cost of making the show.You can also check out our sponsors: Yoto Audio Players for Kids, a screen-free alternative that makes listening, learning, and entertainment easy with no screens, and Evelyn & Bobbie Bras, the most comfortable and flattering bra I’ve ever worn.Links are in the show notes.Okay, let’s meet Hayden.Sarah: Hi, Hayden. Welcome to the podcast.Hayden: Thank you so much. I’m excited to be here.Sarah: Yeah, I’m excited to have you. I found you on Instagram, and I love all the reels that you make. I love your energy and how you show up for parents so they can show up for their kids. So I’m really glad to have you on the podcast.Hayden: I appreciate that.Sarah: Tell us about who you are and what you do.Hayden: Yeah. Well, obviously, my name’s Hayden.I’m a certified Synergetic Play Therapist, and I have my own play therapy practice. Like you mentioned, my Instagram has become something I’ve had a lot of fun doing. It’s really given me an avenue to work with adults and support them in how we support kids.So I kind of have a two-pronged approach right now. I work with kids in my play therapy practice, but I also do a lot of speaking, presenting, workshops, and that kind of thing—giving parents the tools from the training I have so they can better support kids.My specialization has really become focused on big behaviors and meltdowns. I also work with a lot of anxiety.So that’s the quick elevator speech.Sarah: Yeah, it makes sense because you have the kids for maybe an hour a week—or whatever your typical amount is—but then they’re off with their parents for all of the rest of the days and hours of the week.If parents don’t know how to support them during that time, it probably makes your job not work as well, right?Hayden: Yeah, definitely.I always explain it as wraparound support. I think we can do so much in our time together and in our work during sessions, but things are just going to move so much quicker when parents are involved.Ultimately, that’s how I view my work as a play therapist. We’re not trying to make drastic changes or fix things. We’re trying to help the child feel better because, typically, when they’re coming in, it’s because something in their world feels really big, really hard, or really challenging, and that’s coming out as behaviors.Sarah: Right.Hayden: I kind of view it that way. We’re trying to help the child feel better, which is going to help the whole family system feel better.Typically, with the kinds of things I mentioned—if a child is having really big, intense meltdowns that are above and beyond what’s developmentally appropriate—it can be really hard on the entire family system: siblings, parents, whoever it might be.I talk about it as creating as much wraparound support as possible because it’s going to help the child work through whatever feels clogged for them in that moment.Sarah: What’s a Synergetic Play Therapist?Hayden: Yeah. Synergetic Play Therapy is a modality, an approach—a specific type of play therapy.The way I typically explain it is that we’re really working through the lens of nervous system regulation.That’s one of the core tenets of Synergetic Play Therapy: viewing the behaviors we’re seeing as symptoms of nervous system activation.So when we’re talking about anxiety, meltdowns, or big behaviors, we’re viewing those as symptoms that the nervous system is activating.Sarah: Yeah, that’s really aligned with the work that I do, too, teaching parents about their kids’ big behaviors.You mentioned before we started recording that your oldest child is six. Were you a play therapist before you had kids?Hayden: Yes, briefly.I actually started out in schools. I was working as an elementary school counselor when I finished my graduate program in counseling.The opportunity to explore Synergetic Play Therapy kind of fell into my lap while I was doing that.There’s now something called the Synergetic Education Institute, and their whole approach is bringing neuroscience and nervous system understanding into school settings.We were one of what I would call the pilot programs for that. As they were figuring out what worked, what didn’t work, and how they wanted to implement it, we started bringing these ideas into our school setting to change the school culture and ask, “How do we support the behaviors we’re seeing?”In my school counseling role, I was given the opportunity to start learning more about this.As I did, I thought, This is magic. I love doing this.Sarah: That’s so cool.Hayden: Talk about fate.So it was one of those things where I liked working in schools, but doing this in a private practice setting and working one-on-one with a child felt like what I was meant to do.I just loved it.I still enjoy the adult piece. I mentioned that earlier. I like supporting educators, and that’s something I bring into my Instagram content sometimes—helping classroom teachers think about how to bring these ideas into the school setting.Ultimately, though, I found that I really enjoy being in the role of working one-on-one with the child.That’s what my school opportunity allowed me to do, and it’s how I got to where I am now and what I feel I specialize in.I was being called in to support behaviors, so I really learned how to implement this one-on-one while supporting a child.I always say I have the utmost admiration for teachers who are trying to learn this, do this, and implement this with 25 or 30 kids in a classroom.Sarah: Seriously.Hayden: That is a whole different beast than sitting one-on-one with a child and co-regulating.Sarah: It’s so needed, though.I find, through the clients I work with, that when kids are having trouble at school, most teachers and administrators are not very aware of the nervous system and how that factors into behavior.So it’s great that there are people out there trying to bring that understanding into schools.Just as an aside, do you have any resources for parents who are listening and want their school to be more nervous-system informed? Do you have any resources we could share in the show notes?Hayden: Yeah.My free resources page has some templates and tools that start creating that understanding.Honestly, I think my Instagram is a great place to start because what I try to do there is take these big topics and make them really simple. We’re trying to fit them into one-minute videos, so my goal is to give people a little bit of the understanding in a really accessible way.Another resource is the Synergetic Education Institute.Sarah: Great.Hayden: That’s their entire focus: bringing this into districts and schools. I’m always happy to share them as a resource because that’s exactly what they’re doing.Sarah: Perfect. We’ll share those in the show notes.Okay, so you’ve mentioned meltdowns a couple of times and that a lot of your work centers around helping parents and kids when meltdowns and big behaviors are an issue. One of the reels I saw when I was preparing for this interview was the one where you were using the pop bottle analogy. And I think some people may have heard about that, but maybe you could explain the pop bottle analogy and how that relates to meltdowns.Then we’ll talk about what we can do preventively. What I always say to parents is that when you have meltdowns, there’s what you do in the moment, but there’s also everything that was leading up to the moment.You can be preventative about meltdowns, and sometimes that really helps a lot. Other times, you try, but you still find yourself in that meltdown space.What I’d like to get from you today is both the preventative piece and the in-the-moment piece.But back to the pop bottle. Maybe you could explain that analogy and then talk about how it factors into thinking about prevention.Hayden: Yeah, definitely.The one you’re referring to, I’ve previously explained to families I work with as almost like a pressure gauge.Things are building and building, and the pop bottle came to mind because if you’re shaking up a bottle of pop and you open it all at once, it’s going to explode everywhere.The picture I was trying to create is: can we open it a little bit and close it, then open it a little bit and close it? Can we let a little bit of steam off throughout the course of the day?Going back to the pressure gauge analogy, how do we let a little bit off so it’s not ready to explode at any given moment?That’s how I think about the preventative side. How do we bring in little bits of regulation throughout the day so we can let off some of that steam?I think there are a couple of ideas that help this make sense. One is the concept of the window of tolerance. The window of tolerance is basically how much stress your nervous system can tolerate before you become dysregulated.It’s that same idea: as the pressure builds, that window gets smaller and smaller.Sarah: And if I could just jump in, bringing that back to the pop bottle analogy: if you imagine your child as a bottle of pop, some kids can take 25 shakes of the bottle and not have much pressure build up, while other kids might only take one or two shakes before the pressure starts building.That’s the window of tolerance, right? How many stressors can your nervous system deal with before you move outside that window of tolerance?Hayden: Exactly. And the thing I always add when I’m talking to people about this is that our window of tolerance is not static. Some days I might be able to handle 20 shakes. Other days it might be one or two. It’s going to depend on things like whether I’m hungry. We’ve all heard the term hangry, right? You’re quicker to frustration if your body is hungry. Or tired. Having little kids, right? The nights I sleep less—Sarah: Yeah.Hayden: —I’m just easier to frustrate.Sarah: Totally.Hayden: So it’s this idea that it’s not static. It’s not like your child operates at one fixed level.They may have a general baseline, but there are things that will widen or narrow that window. Maybe I did something today that I’m really proud of, and that widens my window. I can take on a little bit more because I’m feeling good about myself.Or maybe I skipped breakfast and I’m a little hangry, so I’m quicker to frustration. It’s both-and.The other piece I was going to tie in here is the way I’ve come to think about regulation, which really comes from my training in Synergetic Play Therapy. Lisa Dion, who created this modality, explains regulation as connection to self.The way I like to explain that is this: In adult language, we’ve all heard people say, “I was so mad I blacked out,” or, “I was so mad I was seeing red.”The idea is that the emotion overwhelmed you and you kind of disconnected from yourself.When we think about regulation, it’s not just take a deep breath. Sometimes that might be what I need in the moment, but sometimes it isn’t what helps me come back to myself when things feel really big or overwhelming.One of the things I like to do when I’m working with families is figure out how their child naturally regulates already. Do they like proprioceptive input? Do they like deep pressure? Do they like to jump and crash into things?Sarah: Can you explain proprioceptive input?Hayden: Yeah. Really, it’s our sensory system’s way of figuring out where our body is in space. The examples I just mentioned are ways kids get proprioceptive input. That deep pressure gives the sensation of, My body is right here. Jumping and crashing into things does the same thing.A lot of times, parents describe their kids as being like a bull in a china shop. They’re bumping into things and seem to have a hard time figuring out where their body is in space. Whenever I talk about this, I always say that my understanding of it really comes more from the occupational therapy world. I know enough to talk about it, but it’s not my primary area of expertise.What I focus on is asking: if we see that’s the way our child regulates, how do we intentionally bring more of it in? For adults, when I think about regulating myself, sometimes I feel like I need to give myself a little massage, or rub my head, or apply some pressure. We all do that thing where we go, ugh, or rub our hands against our cheeks when we’re overwhelmed.That’s proprioceptive input. Sometimes that kind of input is really regulating.Other examples might be movement or heavy work—pushing and pulling activities. If we see our kids doing some of these things instinctively or intuitively, how do we meet that and bring it into those moments so it becomes a regulatory tool? All of that comes back to the idea that if we can give children little bits of regulation throughout the course of the day, it’s not a magic fix, but it lets a little steam out of the pop bottle.The goal is to create more capacity and help widen that window of tolerance so they aren’t right on the edge of exploding all the time. I always like to add that caveat: it’s not the magic fix.Doing these things doesn’t mean there will never be another meltdown. What I really try to teach adults is: how do we help children have these experiences and learn how to do these things? Because what we’re really doing is laying the groundwork for them to eventually be able to do these things on their own.Above all else, I don’t want parents to think they’re failing if their child is still having meltdowns. It doesn’t mean it’s not working. We’re helping them discover what helps them in those moments so they build templates they can keep returning to over and over again.Sarah: What are some other things that parents might notice their kids do that, after listening to this conversation, they might think, Ah, that’s my child instinctively knowing what regulates them?I’m thinking of my nine-year-old niece. She finds jumping very regulating, so she uses a trampoline and jump rope. My sister eventually realized, “Oh, she seems a lot calmer after she’s been doing those things.”What are some other things parents might notice that are instinctively regulating?Hayden: Going back to the idea that regulation is connection to self, I’ve come to talk about it as something that can almost be anything.What do you notice your child doing that seems to genuinely help them? The examples you mentioned are great ones. Jumping. Spinning. Those are common.As you were talking, I was thinking back to a training I did with Lisa Dion.She talked about these umbrella categories—not necessarily saying they are regulation, but that they can help us generate ideas. One category was stillness. Like you mentioned: lying down, being quiet, reading a book.Another category was movement, which is the opposite end of the spectrum—jumping, spinning, stomping. Then there’s the proprioceptive input we talked about before: deep pressure, giving yourself a massage.And the last one was breath. Breathwork can absolutely be a fantastic tool.But I think we often get sucked into this idea that here’s a regulation strategy—use it and it’ll help.Sarah: Right.Hayden: But when we think about our own experience, I think we often approach it from the mindset of, Here’s a strategy to give my kid, and they’ll use it and feel better. I think about my own experience. Through this work, I’ve realized how anxious I was as a kid, so working on my anxiety has been a long process for me. And when I’m feeling anxious, doing a breathing exercise for 10 seconds doesn’t make the anxiety disappear. It might not be what I need in that moment. I might need to get up and burn some energy. I might need to go for a run.The real question is: what do I need in that moment to help move that energy and help me come back to myself?Sarah: Right. And as you point out, if regulation is connection to self, it’s different for everybody. I think you’re right that the thing parents hear most often is, “Just take a deep breath.” There are all these strategies—pretend you’re blowing on hot chocolate and all of that. Maybe that works for some kids, but for other kids it won’t help at all.Hayden: Definitely. And to build on that, before I learned a lot of this—and what I hear from parents all the time—is: “My kid won’t do any of these strategies.”Even if we have a toolbox and say, “Here’s 20 ideas, let’s figure out which one works,” their child won’t do any of them in the moment. Because they’re dysregulated.Absolutely. You’re right that Part 3 drifted back into a transcript layout with too many short paragraphs.Here’s the same section in the publishing-ready style you’ve asked for: bold speaker names, no content removed, no summarizing, but with natural paragraphs and cleaner flow.Sarah: Yeah.Hayden: And I think we can get into all the science-y reasons why that makes sense, but the bigger picture is this: what I try to do on my Instagram is ask, How can we make this fun and playful? How can we make it something kids actually want to do?You mentioned things like blowing on hot chocolate. One of the things I really try to do is help people build a toolbox of ways to make regulation fun and playful. Thinking about our own adult experience, if I’m frustrated and my partner comes in and tells me, “Calm down,” or, “Take a deep breath,” my response is probably going to be, “Absolutely not.” It just makes me more frustrated.So how do we make it a fun and playful invitation rather than saying, “I’m telling you to do this because I’m noticing you’re upset”?Some of those breathing activities can become games. One of the things I talk about is practicing these things in regulated moments so that when your child is dysregulated and you bring them in, they think, Oh, I know what’s happening. We play this all the time.Again, none of this means it’s going to work every single time, but it gives us—Sarah: I just want to highlight what you said because I think it’s really important. If you’re only using these strategies when your child is dysregulated, they’re going to develop a negative association with them. Partly, I think they’ll feel manipulated. They’ll think, Oh, my parent is just trying to get me to calm down.And they’ll be resistant because they associate those strategies with negative feelings and experiences. So I love that you’re saying to do these regulating things at other times too and make them positive experiences that you can draw on later rather than just tools you pull out to end a meltdown.Hayden: Definitely.And just to tie in some of the science behind it, when we think about this from a nervous system lens, dysregulation is our body sounding the alarm bells and saying, There’s something happening here that requires activation.When we’re talking about meltdowns, that’s typically the nervous system escalating into a fight-or-flight response. If we think about fight-or-flight biologically, its primary goal is to keep us alive. That’s why we move into that state.So if we’re trying to get our child to do anything in that moment, it makes sense that we’d get an immediate response of, I’m not trusting anything right now because my goal is survival.Sarah: Mm-hmm.Hayden: When we practice these things during regulated moments—when they’re not in those big emotional states—it becomes familiar. It’s not, I’ve never tried that before. I don’t know if it’ll work. It’s, Oh, we do that all the time. That’s fun. That’s familiar. I know that.Again, it doesn’t mean they’re necessarily going to jump right into it, but it gives us a much better chance than saying, “Hey, here’s this thing we’ve never done before. I know your body is biologically trying to stay alive right now, but trust me and try it.”Because the biological response would be, “Absolutely not.”Sarah: Right. That makes sense.We’ve drifted a little into what to do in the moment of a meltdown, which is great, but is there anything else you wanted to add about prevention? You mentioned making sure resources are high—things like hunger, tiredness, and those sorts of factors. You talked about opening the pressure valve throughout the day with regulating activities.Is there anything else you’ve noticed that helps when a child is having a lot of meltdowns?Hayden: Yeah. I think those are some of the biggest things.My whole approach is rooted in connection as well. A lot of times, parents tell me that sometimes they can catch it—they can see the signs that a meltdown is coming—and other times it feels like things go from zero to 100.If we’re able to notice those signs that things are building, that our child seems more on edge or more hypervigilant, that becomes a great time to bring in some of these strategies. But tying it back to what we’ve already talked about, I want to do that from a place of connection.It’s, Hey, I’m right here with you. Let’s do this together.Not, Here’s a strategy. Go do it by yourself.Because connection itself is incredibly regulating.Sarah: So the whole co-regulation piece.Hayden: Exactly. It’s kind of a both-and situation. We can use connection before the meltdown, and we can use it as we’re moving into one.I wanted to bring that in because connection itself can be a regulatory tool. And it also ties into your next question.Sarah: What about empathy? You were talking a lot about connection, and to me they go hand in hand. Do you find yourself talking about empathy very much with parents?Hayden: Yes. Typically, we talk about it more in the moment, although it fits into both areas.One of the reasons we focus on it during the moment is because I teach parents about Bruce Perry’s Three Rs: Regulate, Relate, Reason.I really like this framework because it helps us understand where a child is in their brain and how we should meet them there.If they’re operating from their brainstem—the lowest, survival-oriented part of the brain—we meet them with regulation.Sarah: That’s the fight-or-flight part.Hayden: Typically, yes.Then the next level up is the limbic system, which is our emotional control center.Sarah: Mm-hmm.Hayden: There we meet them through relating, or what parents often hear called validation.Then, when they’re operating from the cortex—the highest part of the brain—we can reason with them.The reason I’m bringing this up is that empathy really lives in that relating stage. That’s where we’re saying, I’m in this with you. This feels frustrating. This feels overwhelming. This feels scary.That’s where empathy naturally fits.So if I’m noticing my child starting to become emotional and I sense that we’re moving toward a bigger meltdown, that’s a great opportunity to step into that relating and validating stage and connect empathetically.Sarah: Okay, nice. So reason is when they’re not really losing it yet? That’s when we might explain why they can’t climb the bookshelf or something like that?Hayden: Right. Reasoning is when they’re logical and rational.Sarah: Thinking clearly.Hayden: Exactly.That’s when logical conversations make sense.One question I get a lot is, “How do I know where my child is?” And the truth is, you probably don’t always know. It’s a bit of feeling out the situation.You might notice that you’re trying to be logical and rational, but it’s not landing. That’s your clue.Sarah: Right.Hayden: At that point, we drop down a level and try validating or relating. Or maybe we’re supporting a big meltdown and we’re regulating, and then we try saying, I get it. This feels really frustrating, and it only gets bigger.Okay, that didn’t land. Let’s drop back down and spend more time regulating.Sarah: Right.Hayden: It’s an ebb and flow. We’re trying things and seeing what works.Sarah: I love that framework. It’s really helpful to think about what to do when something isn’t landing.I saw you talking about that on Instagram, and it reminded me of Larry Cohen’s work. In The Opposite of Worry, he says that if reassurance doesn’t work within 20 seconds, it’s not going to work. When a child is anxious, they’re not operating from the reasoning part of their brain.And I think the same thing probably applies here. If your child is moving into a meltdown and your explanation doesn’t work within 20 seconds, it’s probably not going to work.Hayden: Definitely. You can talk until you’re blue in the face, but if it’s not landing, it’s not suddenly going to start landing.And it gives us the opposite lesson too. When we’re supporting a meltdown, we so often want to fix it. We want to move right into being logical and rational. Or sometimes we jump to consequences. We’re giving consequences in the middle of the meltdown.None of that is going to land.Working in schools, I saw this all the time. “You’ll have to finish your homework at home,” or taking away recess. The child doesn’t care because they’re not operating from the part of the brain that cares about those things in that moment.Sarah: Mm-hmm.Hayden: All of those conversations—making amends, talking about what happened, figuring out solutions—can absolutely happen. But they need to happen when the brain is ready for them.Sarah: Right. Not during the meltdown.Hayden: Exactly.Sarah: What else do you want parents to know about those meltdown moments?Hayden: My approach is very co-regulatory. The Three Rs are a great foundation because they help us understand that first step of regulation, then relating, then reasoning.There are lots of things we can do within that framework.One thing I hear from parents all the time is, “So am I just supposed to sit here with my child for an hour while they melt down? I can only keep my cool for so long.”And my response is: I totally get that. That’s valid.Co-regulation doesn’t mean sitting there forever doing nothing. Yes, a big part of our goal is allowing them to have their emotional experience rather than shutting it down. But another big part of our goal is teaching them how to regulate when things feel overwhelming.So I like to bring in little invitations. They’re probably not going to do exactly what I tell them to do, but I can offer invitations back to themselves.One of my favorite ways to do that is mindfulness.And when I say mindfulness, I don’t necessarily mean trying to get my child to do something. Instead, I’m having a mindful experience myself and offering it as a gentle invitation.For example, if we’re sitting together and I’m regulating myself, I might say, “Oh, there’s a squirrel in the tree outside.”It’s just an observation. I’m not telling them they have to look.But as they start moving up through the brain and through that Three Rs framework, sometimes they’ll suddenly say, “Oh, I want to see the squirrel.”Or I might notice, “The air from the fan feels cool on my face.”It’s just an observation. I’m not directing them. I’m simply staying present and offering little invitations back into the present moment.Sometimes they don’t care. Sometimes it even escalates them. But I’m making those observations for myself first.As I’m keeping myself regulated, I’m giving them opportunities to join me in the present moment.Going back to regulation as connection to self, they’re disconnected from themselves in those moments. They’re overwhelmed by emotion.So the goal of mindfulness is to gently invite them back into the present moment with me. If you’re in the present moment, you’re here. You’re noticing what’s around you.That’s why I like to bring mindfulness into these conversations. Because no, you don’t have to sit there doing nothing while waiting for it to end. There are things we can do to help bring our children back to the present moment.First, by keeping ourselves regulated. If I’m staying mindful and present, it keeps me from losing myself.Second, it teaches them what it looks like to come back when things feel overwhelming.Sarah: That makes a lot of sense.What do you find gets in the way of parents being able to do that? Are there common stories they’re telling themselves? Fears they have?In my work, I hear things like, If they’re like this at five, what are they going to be like at fifteen? Or, Nobody else’s kid acts like this.Things like that.Hayden: Absolutely.My answer to both of those is usually the same: our own dysregulation.I talk about this from the theoretical soapbox of Here’s the ideal model. But I tell every family I work with: this is the water I swim in every day, and I still don’t get it right every time.I’m a human being. I have my own activation.When I hear examples like the ones you mentioned, those are usually signs of dysregulation. If my mind is spiraling into the future, that’s a clue that I’m no longer present. I’m worried about something else.So none of this is to say that staying regulated is easy. It’s completely natural to become dysregulated when we’re around dysregulation.At the same time, the more we practice it, the easier it becomes. It’s like yoga. The more we practice, the more accessible it gets.I think one of the biggest challenges is the guilt and shame parents feel. They think, But I get dysregulated. And my response is: that’s okay.When we’re supporting a meltdown, it might look like staying regulated the whole time. But more often, it looks like a dance. I regulate. I notice I’m getting dysregulated. I come back to myself. Then I regulate again.That cycle happens throughout the experience. It doesn’t mean you have to stay perfectly regulated from beginning to end. And honestly, there’s benefit in both versions. If I stay regulated, I’m creating a calm space. But if I become dysregulated and then regulate myself again, I’m also modeling something really powerful.I’m showing my child:“I disconnected, and now I’m back.”“I disconnected, and now I’m back.”We so often think we have to teach children by telling them what to do. But there is tremendous power in modeling it. Simply showing them what regulation looks like when things feel really big and overwhelming is teaching them.Here’s Part 4 cleaned up in the same publishing-ready style as the revised Part 3: all content preserved, no summarizing, no omissions, bold speaker names, and natural paragraphs rather than one-line transcript formatting.Sarah: Options.Hayden: It might not be that they turn around and do these things immediately, but we are showing them, “Look, I’m right here with you. I get overwhelmed. I get dysregulated.”And one last thought within that: so often I hear this from the kids I work with—“Nobody else is like this. I’m the only one who feels this way. I’m the only one who gets so overwhelmed by my anger.”Sarah: Aw.Hayden: So I think there’s so much normalization in naming our own experience. Maybe it’s naming our own experience, but maybe it’s even just showing them: “Ah, I got really frustrated, and now I’m coming back and regulating myself. I’m making repair. I’m taking accountability for it.”All of those pieces matter. There’s power in all of them, I think, and that’s something I hope I get across to the families I work with. I think there’s often this guilt or shame of, “I’m not doing a good job at this.”And it’s like, there’s value in all of these things when you can bring some intentionality to them.Sarah: I love that.I’m kind of springing this on you, and I don’t know if I’ve seen you talk about this specifically in your reels, but do you have any specific strategies for aggression that comes with a meltdown?Hayden: Yeah.I think the thing that’s really tricky with aggression is that, especially when we’re talking on social media, I’m not there. I don’t know your kid. So it’s really hard for me to tell you exactly how to support them in the moment.I always start with a very generic statement: we have to create safety first.I can’t tell you exactly what that’s going to look like because every situation is different. But you have to make sure you’re safe, your child is safe, their siblings are safe, their friends are safe—whoever is around needs to be safe.We have to create physical safety first and foremost.Then, from there, I think it’s helpful to understand that the fight-or-flight response is what’s happening. It would make sense that we’ve reached a level where things have gotten so big that the child is now fighting. That’s the response that’s happening.In that moment, we’re really trying to communicate, “This isn’t warranted right now. You don’t need to be in a fight response.”The ways we do that include the co-regulation we’ve already talked about, but also being very aware of how we’re presenting ourselves.How are we appearing? Are we cornering them? Are we standing high above them? Can we get down to their level?Those subtle things can send the message: “Everything is activated. The alarm bells are going off. There’s this thing hovering over me. I’m cornered in my room, so I have to fight my way out.”Can we bring just a little bit of awareness to those dynamics, as best we’re able, once we’ve created safety?Some of those pieces can be really difficult because we’re trying to keep our kids safe. We may need to be in their personal space to prevent them from hurting themselves.But once we get to a place where they’re no longer actively hurting themselves, can we begin sending signals that—Sarah: That they’re safe and that you’re not a threat.Hayden: Exactly.And it’s not even necessarily that you are the threat. It’s more about asking, What can we do to help simmer things down a little bit?One of the other things that comes to mind is talking less and keeping things really simple.If they’re in that level of activation, it’s not the time to reason. It’s probably not the time to talk about how frustrating the situation is for them.Sarah: Right.Hayden: It might simply be:“I’m right here.”Sarah: Yeah.Hayden: “I’m right here.”Just a steady presence. Keeping it calm, quiet, and simple.“You are safe.”Really short, simple phrases.I think another idea that comes to mind is thinking about the activation in the body. When we’re talking about nervous system activation and fight or flight, things are escalating. Things are speeding up. That energy is getting big.It makes sense that it’s coming out through the extremities—through hitting, kicking, biting, screaming. The energy is trying to get out of the body.So if our child is hitting, can we find a way for them to move that energy through their hands?Maybe I have a pillow and I’m letting them push against it.Again, this has to be balanced with safety. I can’t tell every parent, “This is what you should do every time.” But with some children—especially smaller children—if their arms are flying around, I might be able to create a situation where they can push against a pillow.If they’re kicking and their legs are flailing, can we do something similar where their feet are pushing against something?We’re giving some proprioceptive input while simultaneously allowing the energy to move through the part of the body that’s already showing us where that energy wants to go.Sarah: That makes sense.When you were talking about creating safety through your physical presence when someone’s having a meltdown, I was reminded of something.It’s funny—I don’t know if you find this in your work—but sometimes I use an analogy or example for years and then kind of forget about it.I was reminded that I used to talk to parents about pretending they’d just come across a wild dog that was acting aggressively. I’d ask them, “What would you do to get past this wild dog?”They’re always saying things like, “Well, I’d talk softly. I’d get lower. I’d...”Instinctively, we all seem to have a sense of how to demonstrate to another creature that we’re not a threat.And then I’d say, “Okay. Do that with your kid. Do that with your kid.”What you were saying reminded me of that.Hayden: Absolutely.I think that visual of a cornered animal is a really powerful one because it makes sense.As you were talking, I was thinking about a book by Dr. Stuart Brown about play. One of the things he talked about was how animals have this moment of uncertainty when they encounter each other.It’s almost like they’re asking, “Are you a threat or not?”If two dogs are approaching each other, there’s this moment where they’re feeling each other out. We don’t know which direction it’s going to go until they determine things are okay. Then their tails start wagging, and they begin jumping around and playing.But first there’s that period of interaction where they’re assessing the situation.Sarah: Mm-hmm.Hayden: That’s the idea we’re talking about here.One of the things I discuss is using playfulness as a strategy to support regulation—even sometimes during meltdowns. This is a little different from the aggression question, but it connects.If I come in trying to be playful when a child’s brain is trying to figure out what’s happening, they may think, “Wait, what is going on? I don’t understand this.”It can almost feel like an uncertain threat.Sarah: Or, “Are they making fun of me?”Hayden: Exactly.And so it’s the same principle we’ve been talking about throughout this conversation.We’re trying to lay a foundation. When I talk about co-regulation, we’re really trying to co-regulate the environment.It’s not necessarily about getting our child to do something. It’s about decreasing the intensity of the environment.Whether we’re talking about aggression or anything else, can we be intentional about helping the environment feel a little less intense?Can we help our child feel safe enough to move out of that fight-or-flight state?Sarah: Fantastic. This has been so helpful, Hayden.Before I let you go, there’s one question I ask all my guests. If you could go back in time—and for you it’s not that far back because your kids are still little—and tell your younger parent self something, what advice would you give yourself?Hayden: I think—and this may be a controversial one—but I would tell myself to take myself less seriously.There are so many stressors. There are so many things we think we have to do. We have to be on time. We have to present ourselves a certain way. We have to manage all these responsibilities.Just have some fun.Take yourself a little less seriously and bring in more silliness, fun, and playfulness.That’s something I really try to communicate now. It’s why I bring playful strategies into my work.When I think about the beginning of parenthood and how overwhelming it was—having little kids, trying to balance everything, coming out of COVID when everything felt weird—I wish I had remembered to enjoy it more.And that’s not to say it’s always fun, enjoyable, or easy.But it also doesn’t need to feel stressful all the time.Sarah: I got you.And if that’s controversial, it shouldn’t be.It reminds me of when I worked in early childhood education before I had kids. I used to go home and say to my husband, “Oh my God, parents are crazy.”I shouldn’t use ableist language, but I didn’t know another way to describe it at the time. I couldn’t understand how parents could get so upset about things.Then I became a parent and thought, “Oh my gosh, I totally get it.”But it’s that reminder that things aren’t all-or-nothing.When I look back now—and I’m in a very different stage of parenting—I think about things that felt like a huge deal when my kids were little. Things I worried about endlessly.And now I think, “I wish I hadn’t taken that so seriously.”I wish I could have remembered that they were all eventually going to sleep through the night.Hayden: Mm-hmm.My partner has brought in this language that I really love:“You are more important than whatever.”Sarah: Mm-hmm.Hayden: So, “You are more important than us being on time to this event.”Or, “You are more important than the glass of milk that got knocked over.”Sarah: That’s beautiful.Hayden: It’s just a reframe.Yes, that thing happened. But you are more important than that thing.Sarah: That’s beautiful. I love that.Hayden: Yeah.Sarah: We’ll put links in the show notes, but if you want to give a shout-out to your Instagram account, it sounds like that’s probably the best place for people to learn more about you and what you do.Hayden: Yeah, I think that’s a great place to start because it gives people a little more of what I do.My Instagram is Low Tide Play Therapist, and that’s probably the best landing spot.Then the more business-focused side is lowtidecoaching.com.Sarah: Great.What’s the story behind Low Tide?Hayden: It’s actually how I named my play therapy practice.At the time, we were living in Wilmington, North Carolina. We only had one child, and I was wrestling with what I wanted to call the practice.Our child was very young, and suddenly the ocean felt a little intimidating. That was a new experience for me because it hadn’t felt that way before.One day we went to the beach during low tide. There were little tide pools everywhere, and it felt very safe and non-threatening.And ultimately, I think that’s what play is.It’s a space where we can explore things that feel big, challenging, or overwhelming in an environment where there aren’t huge stakes attached to them.As I watched my child playing in those tide pools—with no giant waves, no threat—I thought:“That’s it. That’s the name.”Low Tide Play Therapy.Sarah: I’m glad I asked because that’s a great story.Hayden: Yeah.Sarah: Well, thank you so much.Hayden: Thank you. I appreciate it. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit sarahrosensweet.substack.com/subscribe
