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On Humans
Where do we come from? How did we get here? And what kinds of creatures are we? On Humans features conversations with leading scholars about human nature, human condition, and the human journey. From the origins of war to the biology of love, each episode brings fresh insights into perennial questions about our self-understanding. The show now unfolds in series of episodes built around a chosen theme, offering ever-deeper dives into some of the biggest questions in science, philosophy, and history. Welcome to the journey! Language: en Genres: Science Contact email: Get it Feed URL: Get it iTunes ID: Get it Trailer: |
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A View From the East: China, Japan, and the Other Paths to Prosperity ~ Debin Ma
Episode 4
Thursday, 7 May, 2026
The tech gap between China and the West is closing fast. But why did the land that invented paper and gunpowder ever fall behind? Debin Ma is the world’s leading economic historian of East Asia. In this fourth episode of our Great Divergence series, he approaches the making of the modern world from an eastern perspective. We discuss why China fell behind, why Japan modernised early, and why East Asia has experienced so many economic miracles. We also discuss China’s recent transformation – a transformation that Ma has witnessed firsthand. LINKS AND REFERENCESDo you prefer reading to listening? You can find a summarised essay of this conversation, with a bibliography, at our series page: https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/news/podcasts/GREAT DIVERGENCE: THE MAKING OF THE MODERN WORLDThis episode is part of a series produced by Warwick University’s CAGE Research Centre in collaboration with On Humans, searching for explanations to why Western Europe and North America emerged as the most affluent and technologically advanced regions of the modern world. Guided by six expert guests, including a winner of the 2025 Nobel Prize in economics, we approach this topic with balance and breadth, exploring everything from colonialism and fossil fuels to science and technology. 1 | Why the West? Colonies, fossil fuels, and lessons from China (Kenneth Pomeranz)2 | Why did so many inventions come from Europe? (Joel Mokyr)3 | Why did the Industrial Revolution happen in Britain? (Robert Allen) 4 | A view from the East: China, Japan, and the other paths to prosperity (Debin Ma)5 | The big picture: Measuring the origins of the modern world (Bishnupriya Gupta and Stephen Broadberry)NAMES MENTIONEDJoseph Needham | Kenneth Pomeranz | Joel Mokyr | Robert Allen | Francis Fukuyama | Jared Rubin | Yin Weiwen | Kaiser Kuo | Deng Xiaoping | Yasheng Huang KEYWORDSEconomics | History | Global Economic History | Industrial Revolution | Chinese history | Japanese history | Developmental Economics | Needham Puzzle | Needham Question | Qianlong Emperor | Macartney embassy | Meiji Japan | Iwakura mission | Age heaping | Comparative development | State capacity | Modern fiscal state | History of taxation | Industrial Policy | History of Technology | Human capitalINFOGuest: Debin Ma (Fudan University and All Souls College, University of Oxford) Host: Ilari Mäkelä (On Humans)Contact: greatdivergencepod@gmail.com
