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Podiatry Legends PodcastAuthor: Tyson E Franklin
Podiatry is a unique profession, and the Podiatry Legends Podcast will change how you feel, see, and think about it and open your mind to all its opportunities. Each week, you will hear from some amazing podiatrists and legends outside of the profession, and there will be an occasional solo episode where I will share my business tips and career experiences. If you enjoy what you hear, you can also watch each episode on YouTube. Just search for my channel, Tyson E Franklin. Language: en Genres: Business, Careers, Education, Self-Improvement Contact email: Get it Feed URL: Get it iTunes ID: Get it |
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377 - 33 Years in Podiatry and Loving it with Dr Patrick DeHeer, DPM.
Thursday, 24 July, 2025
In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Patrick DeHeer, who shares his incredible 33-year journey in podiatry, from treating NBA players with the Indiana Pacers to performing life-changing surgeries in Haiti and the Philippines. We talk about innovation in podiatry, global medical missions, and why teaching the next generation keeps him inspired. We also explore leadership, international outreach, his invention of the Aquinas Brace, and why he’s more excited than ever to lead the profession forward. If you’re a podiatrist or healthcare professional looking for a dose of purpose, passion, and perspective, this one’s a must-listen. “My goal is to leave the profession better than I found it.” If you're enjoying the Podiatry Legends Podcast, please tell your podiatry friend and consider subscribing. If you’re looking for a speaker for an upcoming event, please email me at tyson@podiatrylegends.com, and we can discuss the range of topics I cover. Don’t forget to look at my UPCOMING EVENTS Do You Want A Little Business Guidance? A podiatrist I spoke with in early 2024 earned an additional $40,000 by following my advice from a 30-minute free Zoom call. Think about it: you have everything to gain and nothing to lose, and it’s not a TRAP. I’m not out to get you, I’m here to help you. Please follow the link below to my calendar and schedule a free 30-minute Zoom call. I guarantee that after we talk, you will have far more clarity on what is best for you, your business and your career. ONLINE CALENDAR Business Coaching I offer three coaching options: Monthly Scheduled Calls. Hourly Ad Hoc Sessions. On-Site TEAM Training Days around communication, leadership and marketing. But let’s have a chat first to see what best suits you. ONLINE CALENDAR Facebook Group: Podiatry Business Owners Club Have you grabbed a copy of one of my books yet? 2014 – It’s No Secret There’s Money in Podiatry 2017 – It’s No Secret There’s Money in Small Business (Un-Edited Podcast Transcript) Tyson E Franklin: [00:00:00] Hi, I am Tyson Franklin and welcome to this week's episode of the Podiatry Legends Podcast. With me today is Dr. Patrick Deheer, DPM from Indianapolis, Indiana. Now, if you recognise the name, 'cause it wasn't that many episodes ago, episode 373 when Patrick was on here with Ben Pearl, and Patrick Agnew. We were talking about Podiatry, student recruitment, research, and unity. So if you missed that episode. You need to go back and listen to it. But I picked up pretty early, , when I was talking to Patrick that he's had a pretty amazing Podiatrist career, which is why I wanted to get him back on the podcast. And when I looked through his bio and I saw how much you have actually done, I started to question how many podiatry lifetimes have you actually had? It's I'm looking through your BIO and I've gone. Where, how, where did you find the time to do all this? It's amazing. Patrick Deheer: Thank you. I get asked that question a lot, but I think it's just, I really love what I do and I have a hard time saying no. Tyson E Franklin: It has [00:01:00] to be because I picked that up when we were, did the other episode and you said that towards the end you said, I just love being a Podiatrist. Mm-hmm. And it was actually refreshing to hear someone say that, especially. How many years have you been a Podiatrist for now? Patrick Deheer: So I graduated from Podiatrist school at the Shoal College in 1990. I did a one year residency back then I'm from Indiana. I wanted to come back. All the residencies in Indiana were just one year. And then I did a fellowship with, which there weren't even fellowships after at that point, but I did a fellowship for a year after that. So I had two years of training and so I've been in practice for 33 years in total. Tyson E Franklin: Okay. I've gotta ask a question. Why Podiatrist? How did you get into Podiatrist in the first place? Patrick Deheer: Yeah, that's interesting. I went to Indiana University and I went to school as a pre-dental major and I was gonna be a dentist. And somewhere in my second year, I visited my dentist and I realised that was not a good choice [00:02:00] and, there were several things that didn't resonate with me, and at that point I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. So I was considering marine biology and some other things, and my counselor at IU actually recommended Podiatrist and I didn't know anything about it. And I was, had a, I was talking on the phone with my dad who played golf with a Podiatrist, and he said, well, I know Dr. Ralph Gibney, and he would, I'm sure you could visit him. I did and he loved his job. His patients loved him. He did surgery, had a normal lifestyle. I saw patients leave his office happy, like immediately feeling better. Yeah. He was very successful, just kind and generous and I was like, I can do, I could do that. That looks like a great career and I think. Being really involved with student recruitment, the secret sauce for sure is when a prospective student visits a Podiatrist, just like my experience was so many years ago. They see people who are happy, who love what they do, whose patients appreciate them, who they can help immediately. Feel better. And then, you have the [00:03:00] whole gamut of things you can do within Podiatrist, from diabetic limb salvage to sports medicine to pediatrics to total ankle replacements. So it really gives you a wide range of subspecialties within the profession. So you said you Tyson E Franklin: went Patrick Deheer: to Indiana University, is that right? Yes. Okay. Did you play basketball there as well? I didn't, my dad did. My dad was a very well known basketball player. I love basketball and I'm six foot five, but he was six foot 10 and oh geez, I'm not, I'm not as athletic as he was, but I love basketball. Basketball's been a big part of my life. And that's one of the reasons I was really excited to work with Indiana Pacers, which I was there team podiatrist for 30 years. Tyson E Franklin: I saw that. So you finished in 1990 and from 92 to 2022. You were the Podiatrist for the Indiana Pacers. Yes. How did you score that gig? Patrick Deheer: Well, there's a couple things that happened that led to that. One my mentor was Rick Lde, who was a really big name in [00:04:00] Podiatrist at that point in time nationally and internationally for that fact. He brought arthroscopy into Podiatrist. He was doing it unofficially. And then my dad, like I mentioned, was a big time basketball player. He was actually drafted by the Indiana Pacers in the late 1960s. Oh. And so they knew the name and they worked with Rick Lde and they wanted somebody in more of an official capacity than he had been doing it. And I was in the right place at the right time and I got along really well with the trainer, David Craig. And it just was a great relationship for 30 years. And I take it, you still go to the games? Occasionally. So, they made a change on the orthopedic whole team back in 2022 and they're like, well, we're gonna change everything. And I was like, okay, that's fine. I've done it for 30 years. That was enough. And they had a really nice on the court celebration for me where they recognised me before a game and gave me, I have a couple different jerseys that they've given me, but they gave me one with the number 30 on it to celebrate my 30 years. Oh, that's cool. It was really cool and [00:05:00] it was really fun working with professional athletes. There's a whole sort of nuance to that that I, a lot of people unfortunately don't get experience, but it is it can be challenging. It can be very hectic at times. There's, there can be a lot of pressure involved with it also but it's also incredibly rewarding. Tyson E Franklin: So as, as the Podiatrist for like. Uh, a basketball team at that level. What was it? Was it a a, a daily contact you had with them or was it something once a week you caught up with the players or they only came into your clinic when there was an issue? Patrick Deheer: More the latter, I would say, but I usually would see them at the beginning of the season, help with our orthotic prescriptions and evaluate them, and then as needed. Oftentimes the trainer would call me and ask me to either come to a game or practice and then occasionally they'd have the players would need something more urgent and they would come to my office. But it varied from year to year quite a bit on how much I did on just based on how much they needed me. Tyson E Franklin: Did you go along to the games when you [00:06:00] were the team Podiatrist at the time? Patrick Deheer: Yeah. Not all of them, but definitely some of them. And, they would, the Pacers are such a great organization. They actually had. Every medical specialty as part of their healthcare team and including like, pediatrics for the players kids. And so at the beginning of every year, they would have a a sort of a team doctor reception dinner, and then we would, they'd have a lottery for tickets for us for the games. They would have usually the general managers there and the coach and a player too. And we gotta interact with them and talk with 'em and hang out with 'em. It was just always really fun and the Pacers are just a first class organization and they were great to work with. Tyson E Franklin: What made you decide it was time to. Hang up the boots and not do that. Honestly, Patrick Deheer: it wasn't my decision. It was theirs. They were changing the whole orthopedic team, and yeah, and that's, that happens in sports and especially high levels like that. And initially I was a little bit caught off guard. I can't lie about that, but once I came to terms like, I've done this for a long time Tyson E Franklin: it's okay. [00:07:00] Yeah, I know because we have the Cairns Taipans where I live in the National Basketball League, and it was interesting when they first kicked off 20 something years ago, I was the Podiatrist for the team. Did that first two years. Then all of a sudden there was a change of coach. And they dropped us and just went with another. Podiatrist and we went, well, what the, and we're talking to the team doctor go, what happened there? He goes, oh, I had no control over it. This person knew this person and they've made that decision. I went, oh, okay. Anyway, it only lasted about five months, I think, with the other person. The next minute the coach was ringing up saying, please, we need you to come back. And I'm like, ah, I don't wanna do it now. And they're going, please. So we did, and we did it for the next 15 years. It was a long period of time, but we had a really good arrangement with them. Same thing, doing screens at the beginning of the year and we end up having a, like a corporate box at the game. So we were at every home game and we did a bit of a deal with them to actually get that, [00:08:00] which would be a lot cheaper in the NBL than in the NBAI bet. Yeah. Their budget would be a lot, a lot smaller too in the NBL over here than the NBA. It's crazy sports money over there. Yes it is. Had you worked with other sporting teams as well, or basketball was Patrick Deheer: the main sport you were involved in? Basketball? I worked with the women's. We have A-A-W-N-B-A team also, so I worked with them for a few years, not nearly as long as the Pacers but I worked with them. And then we have a college in Indianapolis called Butler University. I worked with 'em for a few years, but it was again, the basketball team. But I will say. Because of working with professional athletes, I do tend to get athletes from all different types of sports coming to my private office but now official capacity with another team. Tyson E Franklin: So with your career after you graduated and then you did your residency, which was one year back when you did it and you decided you were gonna stay in Indiana, what was the next stage of your career? Patrick Deheer: I've had a [00:09:00] interesting employment history. I worked, went to work for a large group where Rick Lundine, who was my mentor, was one of the owners, and then he left the group after about three years and then went to work for a hospital. So then I followed him and went to work for a hospital for a few years, and then we formed a multi-specialty group. Then I worked in that for a few years and I was like, I think I can do better on my own. So then I was out in practice private practice by myself for several years. And then about four and a half years ago or so the private equity involvement in medicine in the United States has really taken off. And it started in other specialties in medicine, but it hit, it was ha happening in Podiatrist then and still is for that matter. And I was approached by three or four different private equity firms that wanted to buy my practice and have me be involved with their company. And I enjoy, I sold my practice to Upper Line Health back then, and I've been part of that group since. Tyson E Franklin: With um, that transition into private practice, did you, did your practice cover all aspects of [00:10:00] Podiatrist or did you specialize in particular area? Patrick Deheer: I've done everything and I really enjoy all components of Podiatrist. My the things that I'm probably most known for. I'm a big reconstructive surgeon, so I do a lot of reconstructive surgery and I do a lot of pediatrics. Those are probably the two biggest things that I'm most, known for I'm also a residency director in at Ascension St. Vincent's, Indianapolis. And, but I've worked with residents my whole career. I've been a residency director for about six or seven years now. And but I've enjoyed teaching residents for, 33 years basically. And also you go to Haiti and do reconstructive surgery there. So, international medicine has been a big part of my career. I've been on 30 trips total around the world. I've been to several countries. The first one was in 2002. I went to Honduras. One of my former residents that I became really close to he was practicing in Little Rock, Arkansas in a large group there, asked him to go with them and he asked me if I [00:11:00] would join him. And so we went to Trujillo and which is on the eastern coast of Honduras. And, that was in 2002. It was a really kind of small hospital. There was about a hundred people on the, in the group that went there. Not all medical, but most medical we would actually take over the whole hospital. And it was something that just like, I just knew that was like me, like that was so, I just loved it so much and I had such an amazing experience that. I went back there twice and the third time I went, I actually brought with my daughter is my oldest child. She was in high school at the time and watching her go through that experience was probably one of my most favorite international trips. She worked in the eye clinic and just seeing her, see her experience and doing international medicine was really rewarding. Then I wanted to start to go to some other places, and then I stumbled on Haiti. And I really got involved with Haiti. I've been there by far the most, and started working in Haiti, [00:12:00] primarily doing Clubfoot. And in Haiti. I met Kay Wilkins, who was a pediatric orthopedic surgeon from Texas, San Antonio. We started working together on the Haitian Clubfoot project. I also, through my experience in Haiti, my first trip with one particular young man who I did surgery on. Who had a really difficult postoperative course. He was about a 12, 13, or 12-year-old boy who I did clubfoot surgery on. And after that first trip when I came back home, about a week later, I called down to the orthopedic surgeon who was covering our cases and taking care of the patients postoperatively. And we did several cases. I had my good friend Mike Baker, who's a Podiatrist residency director in Indianapolis also. And then we had an anesthesiologist from the. Hospital and Steve Offit, who's a Podiatrist who was a resident at the time, we went down together. So I called and asked how everybody was doing. We did maybe 30 surgeries or something, and they said Everybody's fine except for the kid. He had a really bad wound, dehiscence and infection we're gonna have to amputate his leg. And I said, well, [00:13:00] how long can you wait? And yeah, they said Could maybe wait a week or so. This young man, his name is Wilkin. He lived in the middle of Haiti and he had no paperwork, nothing. I was fortunate. I was in a fraternity at Indiana University and two of my fraternity brothers, their dad was our state senator, one of our state senators, and working through his office. In the Haitian embassy in the US we were able to get him a passport and visa. Within a week. There happened to be a group called the Timmy Foundation from Indianapolis and Porter Prince. They brought him up to Indianapolis. I got the hospital where I worked at that time to admit him. And I got a whole team of doctors involved, pediatricians, infectious disease, plastic surgeons, and we got his wound stabilized. Then one night we were going to do this big massive surgery on him and I fixed his other foot and then the plastic surgeons came in and they did a rectus abdominis flap from his stomach and connected it to fill in. He had a big [00:14:00] wound on his medial sort of heel area, and then they did a split thickness skin graft over that. We had to wait until all the regular surgeries were done 'cause everybody was doing it for and then he stayed in the hospital for about a month after that. And then there were some other people from a church who went with us too here. And one of them brought him into his home with his family and they took care of him for about three months while he rehab. And he was on the news, the story was on the news and in the newspaper. And then he some he became a little celebrity and, then some local people helped put him through a private school in Port-au-Prince, and he ended up healing both feet really well and moving on and living his life. And it was a long journey, but through that I really thought there has to be a better way of dealing with Clubfoot. So I started going to the University of Iowa and met Dr. Ponseti and I went out there several times and I got to know Dr. Ponseti pretty well. And I just loved working with him and learning from him. And he was the kind most kind, gentle man I've ever met [00:15:00] in my life. He was in his like 92, 93, somewhere early nineties. Oh, right. At that time, seeing patients and. A quick story. One of the most surreal nights of my life, the last time I was there, he invited me to his house for dinner, and his wife was equally famous in her profession. She, they were from Spain and she was a Spanish literature teacher, a professor. And so I go to their house and I'm having beer and pizza with these two 90 year olds who are incredibly famous respective professions. And it was just, I was just like, I cannot believe this. And then he asked me if I wanted to go up to his office and look at his original Deco Dega paintings. I'm like. Yes, let's go do that. That's, I mean, I still kind of get goosebumps thinking about that because , he is the biggest name in pediatric orthopedics, and being able to learn from him and spend as much time as I did with him was really influential in my career. And to still be performing at that age is incredible. That is incredible. Yeah. [00:16:00] His hands were arthritic at that point, but they were almost in the shape of the way he would mold the cast, the clubfoot cast on children. Yeah. 'cause he had done, the thing I loved about him is, he started. His technique in the fifties and everybody thought he was crazy and nobody understood it, and he just kept putting out research and research. In the sixties it was kites method. In the seventies it was posterior release in the eighties. Everybody's like, we don't know what to do now because none of this stuff works. Maybe we should look at that guy in Iowa. And they started looking at it as research. He just kept putting out research and they're like, this may be the answer. And now it's the standard of care according to the World Health Organization. And his story is just really amazing. I have other colleagues here in the US who spent time with him, like Mitzi Williams and learned from him. He didn't care about the initials after your name, if he wanted to help children and put in the effort to learn his technique and he wanted to teach you. And, he was such a kind gentleman. Like I mentioned before, I've never seen a [00:17:00] 90-year-old man get kissed by so many women in my life. People would just be so, I mean, these moms would be just overwhelmed with their appreciation for him and what he did for so many kids. So Tyson E Franklin: the young boy you were talking about before, who went through all that surgery and eventually you saved his limbs, did you ever catch up with him Patrick Deheer: later years? Yeah. I did. I went back several times and to the school he was at, and then the earthquake happened in 20 10 I think it was. I was, uh, I was signed up for this international mission board and I got called about a week after the earthquake in Porter Prince. And they said, you have to be at the airport and you have to bring your own food, your own water and clothes, and we don't know how long you're gonna be here. And so I had my family meet me at the airport and brought as much to as I could, and I flew from Indianapolis to Fort Lauderdale. And then I was in a small airport in Fort Lauderdale and I got on a private plane with two NBA basketball players in a famous football player [00:18:00] who were going down for the earthquake literally a week after. Desmond Howard Alonzo Morning in Samuel Dallen Bear. And so we went, we were on the same flight together and got into Porter Prince and the, there is like a filled hospital at the UN and a big tent. And I get there and they ask me what I do and I say, I'm a Podiatrist, foot and ankle surgeon. And they're like, what else can you do? And I'm like. I go, I can do wound care. And they're like, okay, you're in charge of wound care for the whole hospital. And so, and they're like, and these guys are gonna help you. And they had these Portuguese EMS guys who were there, there were people from all over the world there helping, and everybody was staying in the airport property, which was adjacent to where the UN was. And, they didn't speak any English. I didn't speak Portuguese. And but we would every day go around and premedicate all the patients in the hospital because they had really the, painful wounds, severe crush injuries, massive wounds all over. And then we'd go back through and I would do [00:19:00] wound debridement and do their dressing changes. And these guys helped me. We developed our own sort of way to communicate with each other. And I ended up being there for about eight days and sleeping on a cot with, no bathrooms available that, we just had to makeshift and eventually they got things set up for all the volunteers. And then I went home and through that I met, and one of my other heroes in medicine was John McDonald and he was. Down really the day after the earthquake from Florida. He was a retired cardiothoracic surgeon who got into wound care and he set up the wound care clinic that I took over. And then after I got back, John asked me if I would work in the wound care clinic that he was starting in Porter Prince and if I'd be in charge of the diabetic limb salvage part. And I said that, I said I would. So then I started working with him in Porter Prince at this Bernard Mes Hospital wound care center. So. Tyson E Franklin: Doing this overseas aid work, you must get a lot of enjoyment outta doing it. Patrick Deheer: I love it. I love it. It's not easy. My last trip last late fall was to the Philippines [00:20:00] and I had some travel issues. My total travel time to get to Manila was about 32 hours or so. And but you know, it made it worth it. The it was such a great experience Tyson E Franklin: do you normally go with a team of podiatrists when you. Go and visit Haiti. Do you have a group of podiatrists you go down with? Patrick Deheer: It varies from trip to trip. The more recent trips I've been on to Kenya and to the Philippines, I've gone with steps to walk, which Mark Myerson, who's a orthopedic foot and ankle surgeon, I've gotten to know real well from lecturing together and teaching together. And he started this nonprofit. And I think there, there aren't many podiatrists that are involved with it. There are a few. But he and I have really bonded and gotten to know each other and he asked me if I'd participate in, I really love how they set up their program 'cause it's very much educational based. And one of the things I learned from Kay Wilkins who I went to Haiti with is it's more about. Teaching and sharing your knowledge and experience instead of just what I call parachute medicine, where you go [00:21:00] in and you do 20 or 30 surgeries. It's really about teaching the teachers, especially if you can teach the teachers. Then it's gonna have a mushrooming effect. So you're gonna help, thousands of people instead of 10 or 20 people. Tyson E Franklin: So you are teaching other surgeons down there how to perform these procedures the right way, or? Patrick Deheer: Yes. Well, just, it's not so much that it's my experience in a lot of developing countries is. So for like, reconstructive type stuff, it's gonna be orthopedic surgeons. If it's more wound stuff, it'll be general surgeons. But it's, they just don't get the specialized training that we have. And so that's one of the things that we can bring is we have this knowledge base that they just haven't been exposed to. There are great, like orthopedic surgeons and do a lot of trauma for example, but they maybe don't do a lot of reconstructive flatfoot surgery or Yeah. Or any, yeah. Sarco or something like that where we can give them the, our share, our experience and knowledge and with steps to walk. I really love it [00:22:00] because there's usually five or so faculty and it's mostly foot and ankle orthopedic surgeons, and then myself and from all over the world. And the first day is. And it's all the orthopedic surgeons and residents from pretty much the whole country come in for this program. And so the first day there's a conference where we as faculty present the next day, they line up these patients for us to evaluate. So we evaluate them. They're actually interviewing us. Why we're evaluating, we're telling them what we think and what we would recommend, and then. The so that's on Tuesday. Then Wednesday and Thursday there are surgeries. And then Friday it's either like a cadaver lab or review the surgeries and it's just really great there for the surgeries, there's two faculty nurse, there's a lead surgeon and an assistant surgeon, and then usually two of the orthopedic residents are also on the case too. So there's usually four people on the case. It's really interesting since I have a strong background in pediatrics this year when we were in Manila, there were a lot of pediatric cases. More than half the cases were pediatrics. And the foot and [00:23:00] ankle orthopedic surgeons really don't do a lot of pediatric stuff. They're usually adults. They, usually it's the pediatric orthopedic surgeons who are doing the kids. And so they made meet the lead surgeon on all those cases which was really interesting. Tyson E Franklin: So are they different groups and organizations reaching out to you or are you searching for areas that you feel may need help? When Patrick Deheer: I first started, I was more me searching and trying to find opportunities. Now that I, my name is known people will approach me. For example, I've been working with a colleague in Barbados. She's a she graduated from Podiatrist school in England, and there are seven podiatrists in Barbados who are all non-surgical. And the country actually has a really high amputation rate. And one of the things that they determined, despite everything else that they're doing to try to help reduce that amputation rate, they just needed surgical Podiatrist to be part of it. And we talked at one of the APMA national meetings a couple years ago, and she asked me if I would come down to Barbados. And so I took two of my residents down a CO about. That was [00:24:00] about a year and a half ago and met with her and went to the hospital and I, I was like, yeah, we could definitely help here. There this things like, if a patient has a bunion, a diabetic patient has a bunion that nobody is fixing that, that then leads to an ulcer because it's such a bad bunion that could have been prevented. And. The problem, and this is pretty common in a lot of countries, is they really don't recognise surgical Podiatrist from a credentialing standpoint. And much so in countries like that, were under the English system, they have to change the law. So the government has to change the laws and a force in of nature. Simone McConney is her name, and she's been working with the government to try to give me an exemption so I can start coming down and demonstrating that we can influence the amputation rate and hopefully reduce that significantly. On that Tyson E Franklin: first trip that you just did, was that more of a reconnaissance trip? It was more to go down there and evaluate the area and what is [00:25:00] actually needed. You couldn't actually go down there and perform surgery. Patrick Deheer: Correct. We did see some, we did see patients at a diabetic center and did some minor things like some and things like that. But yeah, it was more, it's more about, and one of the things I've learned is and people ask me about international medicine all the time. It's not going down and saying, here's what I can do. It's about going somewhere and saying, how can I help? What do you need? And then if you can help fulfill the need. Then great. And really, and especially if that can be centered around teaching the local doctors and working with them. And again, it's not that I know anything that I'm a better surgeon than anybody there. It's just I have this really super sub-specialized training that they haven't been exposed to. And then I can share that with them. Tyson E Franklin: Yeah. I've had a few Podiatrist on the podcast who have done some overseas work and there was one Australian Podiatrist and he's been traveling through South America for the last couple of years. Not doing surgery, but just making up inserts or whatever he can get his hands on. And just [00:26:00] doing general routine foot care on people. Mm-hmm. And educating 'em about footwear and protecting their feet. And he's been doing it for a couple of years now and absolutely loves it. Patrick Deheer: I I mean, I've made some maybe not the best decisions. Like I went to Iraq twice in the middle of the Gulf War, for example. Not this. Up in the world. But and Haiti, I've been in Haiti at times when Haiti was in total civil unrest. But I love it so much that the risk is worth it for me to be able to make a difference in people's lives, but also to share the knowledge and experience that I have accumulated over my 35 years and to pay it forward. Tyson E Franklin: So over this period of time you've done a lot of work overseas and, but you've been on a number of different boards and associations. How important is it is it for you to actually be involved in the profession in that way? Patrick Deheer: Well, when I [00:27:00] finished my residency I was at our state meeting and I was complaining about the quality of the meeting and they were like, okay, that's fine. You can be on the CE committee now, the continuing education committee. I'm like, okay, I'll do that. But don't ask me to get involved in politics 'cause I'm never gonna be doing that. I'm gonna be more in the educational stuff. Look at me now. I'm President elective, at APMA and I've had several board positions and i've been on a million committees. And I will o once I got on the board for our state association and went through all those stages or positions on the state board I really started to enjoy the leadership part of that. I liked trying to help direct where the profession is going and in. My whole thing is to leave it better than I found it. My father-in-law was also a Podiatrist and he passed away about a year and a half ago and is mid eighties. He worked in my office until he is like 82 or 83 and I loved Podiatrist, but he really loved Podiatrist and people like [00:28:00] him. My mentor, Rick Lde. I can, Teddy Clark, who was the a president of APMA from Indiana. He was the first African American president of APMA Earl Kaplan, Dalton Glary, who just recently passed away. All those people paved the way for us who are practicing now, and it's our responsibility to pay for pave the way for those people following us and to continue to advance the profession. And I can really do that at a high level. Being involved in a national organization like APMA. Tyson E Franklin: With the national board in the United States, do you connect with associations in other countries a lot or you don't have much to do with them? Patrick Deheer: N not a lot, somewhat, but I do think there's opportunity. It's been interesting to lecture internationally, like at the International Federation for Podiatrist meetings the global health or the global Podiatrist meetings. Yeah, I'm gonna be the speaker next year for it. And, seeing Podiatrist [00:29:00] grow all throughout the world in the different stages that it's in, in different countries is really encouraging. But I think that we need to first work on the lexicon so everybody's usually in the same. Terminology and then start to, to set some like qualifications to what those things mean. I really think they're, the two terms that need to be used, especially on the international platform, are podiatrists and podiatric surgeons, because yeah they're totally different. And you know what the qualifications are for those, I have my own opinions about, but I think the standards need to be set. And then all the countries who want to see Podiatrist flourish within their country need to figure out a way to meet those standards that have been set. Uh, Feel free to share your opinion, tell us what, what, how you think it should be. Yeah, I mean, I think that to be a Podiatrist, it should be a graduate degree, not my, not an undergraduate degree. And then I think to be a pediatric surgeon, you should have a postgraduate medical educational experience, like a residency program. [00:30:00] And I think those are the two qualifiers. I think board certification should be part of that too to be a pediatric surgeon. But the word, podology is used a lot. Chiropodist has still used some in some places. Yeah. And some of 'em are just like almost a technical degree versus a graduate degree. So I think if everybody could start to agree on some standards and some terminology, then everybody can work towards a common goal and help each other. Tyson E Franklin: , Some part of that I agree. And other parts I can see how other people be going. It's gonna be so confusing to try and get it standardised everywhere. Yeah. It's even the UK system they've started introducing. And if there's anyone from the UK listening this, and if I'm wrong please let me know. But they've introduced like apprenticeships where you don't have to be at the university for the whole four years. You can be doing a lot of your education in the clinic itself, and you go to university at different times and they're calling it like an apprenticeship program. Which [00:31:00] is a completely different pathway again. Patrick Deheer: Right. And in, I think in Canada it's more like an undergraduate degree too. I don't know the speci remember the specifics, but I've lectured in Canada and I've talked to a lot of Canadian podiatrists over the years. But again, not a lot of Canadian podiatrists are doing surgery. Kind of varies from province to Tyson E Franklin: province. Well, in Australia we pretty much finish high school and it's an undergraduate degree. We just go straight in, do Podiatrist. Four years later you come out and you start working. Patrick Deheer: Yeah and may maybe that some sort of hybrid model of that would be great. I just think that. It's an evolving profession and it's such an impactful profession on the healthcare system for all these countries that can improve patients' quality of life, keep people walking, keep people active and healthy dealing with problems like. Diabetes and obesity that are gonna lead to foot problems and reducing the complications associated with those [00:32:00] systemic diseases can really impact the overall healthcare system for countries. So I think it's so important for Podiatrist to be part of that equation, but we, we need to establish what the standards are to really have an impact in those healthcare systems. Tyson E Franklin: Yeah, and even if everybody got together, had a big meeting and you're all agreed, it would still be. Generations for, yeah, for it to roll out completely, because you'd have people that are just graduating now, so they've got a 30, 40 year career ahead of them. Patrick Deheer: For sure. And I think the US has set the standard and I think that, people, something along that line with Australia and England and what you've done and Spain now too, looking at all those models and trying to find something that is everybody can say, okay, this is what it means to be a Podiatrist and this is mean, what it means to be a pediatric surgeon. And then. Work with the support the country's podiatric associations to try to work with their [00:33:00] government to, to make that happen. Tyson E Franklin: This is what I found interesting doing the podcast and what I've enjoyed a lot is where I've had Podiatrist from India, from the UEA, from Mauritius, uk, Canada, South Africa, so many different parts of the world. When you talk to 'em and you go through the processes, everyone goes through. There's a lot of similarities between a lot of countries and then, America is on its own in the way that they actually do things. Patrick Deheer: For sure. I mentioned I graduated from Podiatrist school in 1990. To see the evolution of Podiatrist in the United States, even during my career is really amazing. I'm really proud of where we've. Gotten to, we still have things ways to go to really get to where the profession should be, but I'm really proud of the progress our profession has made during my career. Tyson E Franklin: What would you say has been the biggest change you've seen over your 30 years? Patrick Deheer: I really think [00:34:00] that the diabetic limb salvage has integrated Podiatrist into hospital healthcare systems. And then that has expanded, into things like trauma and into reconstructive surgery. Even more so, I think like in the 1970s here in Indiana, there was only one hospital in the whole state that would let podiatrists operate in the hospital. And that was here in Indianapolis. And now to think that, we can admit our own patients and do total ankle replacements or take trauma call or I'm doing pediatric surgery it's just an amazing how far it's come and, to see that progress. I think a lot of it was led by the diabetic limb salvage component of the profession and integrating that, and that helped to integrate Podiatrist into just the healthcare system and it became a key player and amputation prevention. Tyson E Franklin: So it wasn't one significant moment in time where things changed. It was progression over that period of time. [00:35:00] Patrick Deheer: I think guys like Larry Harless David Armstrong, Larry Lavery Robert Feinberg, Lee Rogers. Those people have really help from a diabetic limb salvage part, integrate the whole profession, I think. Tyson E Franklin: I wanna move ahead a little bit. You invented a thing called the Aquinas Brace. Patrick Deheer: Yeah. So I was running to try to lose weight and I got poster tibial tendonitis and I didn't wanna stop running. And I was wearing orthotics. I was taking some steroid pills but it still was really hurting. And so I realised I had Aquinas like everybody. I needed to stretch, so I was wearing a night splint at night to try to stretch out my calf, and I woke up at two in the morning because they're uncomfortable to sleep in. I looked down, I'm sleeping on my side with my knee bent, and I'm like, this is a complete waste of time. Has to go above your knee, or this is doing nothing. And so that was the genesis of it. I realised the brace needed to go above the knee, and then I also realised the foot position mattered too, that you need to have the foot [00:36:00] supinated so that you can lock them in tarsal joint. And then all the force is gonna be in the hind foot. But also when you supinate the foot, you externally rotate the tibia, which locks the knee. You can't lock your knee into full extension unless your tibia externally rotates via the screw home mechanism. So, that's where the idea came from. I had a friend who was a sales rep. I told him about it and he goes, I know the guy that can help us make this come to reality. So the three of us formed a company called IQ Medical Ricky Heath and John Moore. And I. And then we got brought the brace to market. It was really a learning experience for all three of us. It, like anything took much longer than we thought and cost a lot more money than we thought it would, but it's pretty amazing to see something that you dreamed up in your head, come to life into a real thing. Did you use it on yourself and did you get back running? So this was, it took us about five years from, it really took about five years to get it actually in production. I kept [00:37:00] running though. So Tyson E Franklin: did you end up, being one of your own patients testing this out on yourself. Patrick Deheer: Oh, yeah, I was testing all the sort of different versions of it coming up on myself for sure. I have a size 14 shoe, so it's really pushing the limits on the size of the brace, but I was able to try 'em out as we were going through different ideations of it. Tyson E Franklin: And this is what I was talking about when I did the introduction with you. Where you've had a very successful Podiatrist career. You've been on so many boards and associations and held so many different positions. You're gonna be the next president of the APMA. You've done all this volunteer work overseas, you've invented the Aquinas Brace . with all that going on, what's next? You must have other things in the pipeline you're going, I'm gonna do. I've got more to do. Yeah. Patrick Deheer: I, my favorite thing that I do in Podiatrist is being a residency director. I love it. Okay. I have we have [00:38:00] 12 residents at our program, so we have four per year, or it's a three year residency, and I've become really close to the residents. We have a great program and I just love teaching. I, I love watching the residents develop. We just had a new group start a week ago. So watching 'em develop from July 1st when they start over three years to the June 30th of their third year when they graduate, and I've seen them out. We always have our graduation party in kind of mid-June and it's a kind of a running joke at our residency program that. I cannot get through my speech at their graduation party without getting very emotional because they become like my kids. And yeah I'm so close to them and I'm so proud of them, and I can see what they have to offer to not only their patients but the professional also going forward. And just, it really, it's really something that I love doing and I feel honored to be able to teach them. Tyson E Franklin: So when somebody does Podiatrist in United States, they go to Podiatrist [00:39:00] school, they finish? They get their degree. They've done an undergraduate degree beforehand, haven't they? Then they, yeah. Go to Podiatrist school. If somebody doesn't do residency, they can't work as a Podiatrist. Patrick Deheer: Right. They can't get licensed in the Tyson E Franklin: states Patrick Deheer: any longer Tyson E Franklin: without doing a residency. Yeah. So they do the Podiatrist school. Are there enough positions around the country residencies for everybody who graduates? Patrick Deheer: Yes. There are actually more residency spots now than students. Okay. That's good. Because I'd Tyson E Franklin: heard years ago that sometimes it was a struggle. People would finish and then it was difficult to try and find a residency. I mean, when I was going through it, that was the case. Yeah. And I take it all residencies are not equal. Some are better Patrick Deheer: reputation. Tyson E Franklin: Well, Patrick Deheer: they're all standardised. They're all three year residencies and they're all hold all accountable to the same standards by our governing organization, the Council in Podiatric Medical Education. With that being said, yes, there are some residency [00:40:00] programs that are the leading residency programs for sure. So you Tyson E Franklin: have 12 residencies spots in your program. So there'd be a lot of podiatrists if they really wanted to work with you. Do they contact you while they're in Podiatrist school and start reaching out that way? How do you actually select. He does nce. Yeah. So in, Patrick Deheer: in the US the, and the students during their fourth year rotate through different hospitals. Some, most of the time they're for one month rotations, some are for three month rotations. And it's a little bit of a getting to know each other. It's also part of their educational experience. So they're getting that practical experience and getting out of just the book experience from learning. So we have probably, around 50 to 60 students through the year coming through our residency program as externs. Somewhere between four and or so a month. And then the interviews for residency are always in January, mid-January. And then you rank the students how you like them and they rank the residency programs, how they like them. [00:41:00] And then there's a match that comes out in mid-May and then you find out who you match with. Tyson E Franklin: Okay, so it's not your decision on who actually gets the position. So it doesn't come down to anyone's personal preference that it's an external body that puts them all together. Patrick Deheer: Well, it's not so much an external body it's just you rank your top students and the students rank their top programs. If you pick student, a number one and student a picture, residency, number one, then you're gonna match and they're gonna be one of your residents. Tyson E Franklin: I get It's good to get some insight on how that process actually works, and it's also good knowing there's more residency spots than there are students Patrick Deheer: graduating. Yeah. And while they're here for a month, we get to know them, they get to know us. And then the interviews are part of the mix too. But really, while they're rotating is probably the most important part of it. Because I've had students who were number one in their class who wanted to do our residency, but. It wasn't necessarily a good fit from a culture [00:42:00] standpoint. We are very protective of our culture and sometimes maybe the, top students aren't the be the best fit. I've also had students who were number one in their class who are a great fit, who have been residents at our program too. But we are very protective over the culture. So we wanna look at the the perspective resident global, from a global standpoint and looking at them in the entirety of how they fit in the program. Tyson E Franklin: I think there's a fantastic point that anyone listening to this, even when you were just employing a team member, is you've gotta make sure they fit the culture of your business. Doesn't matter how qualified they are, doesn't matter how many other boxes they tick if they don't fit. It's always gonna be difficult, long term to make it work. Patrick Deheer: Absolutely. I talk to other residency directors and they talk about their challenges with certain, with residents. I never really have any issues with our residents. I think. Part of that is the culture we've established. And part of it is I have two chief residents that are in their third year. The third year residents, two of 'em are [00:43:00] chiefs. I rely really heavily on them. We work very closely. And then I have a program coordinator her name's Carrie and the four of us run the program together. And we all work together. And but everybody is part of it though. We're all, all, so. It would be 12 plus the program coordinator plus me, and we have a clinic, a Podiatrist who runs a clinic. So the 15 of us are all working together, plus we have about 50 podiatrists who are attending surgeons, who our residents work with. So we have a really. Big group of people that we work with, but our residents I, nothing really ever escalates to my level where I've gotta intervene. They just, they all work hard. They all come as willing, eager learners, and I always ask the new residents the same thing to leave the residency program better than they found it. Tyson E Franklin: Have you had anyone that's done the residency that it, they've got halfway through it and just went, this is not working out. We made a mistake. You're not the right fit. Patrick Deheer: Nope. [00:44:00] I, it's interesting I'm known for not being a big fan of fellowships. I think fellowships in the United States have needs to be reigned in. That's another year after training, after residency program are doing, and I think unfortunately, a lot of 'em have become, almost like a fourth year of residency. And fellowships really should be for really specific specialized training. Like if you wanna do diabetic limb salvage or you want to do pediatrics or whatever. But I tell our residents, if you think you need a fellowship because you didn't get adequate surgical training while you were at our residency program, that is my fault. I failed you. And so, in the case that you brought up, that would've been my responsibility. Not the problem of the resident. Tyson E Franklin: So before we wrap up, is there anything else you would like to talk about ? Patrick Deheer: Well, I think one of the other things you asked me about, what excites me now is I started, I invented a surgical a kit for Aquinas surgery for the bowel and gut. And I started a company with three of my sons. [00:45:00] So that's been really fun working with my sons. One of my sons also has a brace company where he sells AFOs and sells the Aquinas brace that I invented. But starting this company with my sons and working with family has been really fun. It some of my most cherished memories were working with my father-in-law when he was still alive and practicing. Even if he was just doing routine care, just hanging out in the office with him and talking shop over dinner and was fun. But I just, i'm really excited about the profession. It's been really great to me and that's why I feel a responsibility to pay it forward and to try to see that it's in a better place than when I entered it. And so that's why I put so much effort into it. I've been in charge of the student recruitment, which we talked about last time, which is another big, yeah. I'm working on right now and I'm really excited about that. And we're looking at expanding that into a branding campaign for the entire profession and getting all the key stakeholders in Podiatrist in the United States involved in that. And it's interesting 'cause osteopathic [00:46:00] medicine to that about. 15 years ago, and it had a really significant impact on osteopathic medicine. I think we can have the same impact on Podiatrist with a national branding campaign where we just elevate the awareness of Podiatrist so people understand what we do and understand that as a potential career for people who are in high school or undergraduate trying to figure out what they want to get into. And it's interesting, we work at a big, our residency's at a big teaching hospital and still their residents in general surgery or neurosurgery who don't really understand what we as podiatrists do, and our residents are interacting with them and say, yeah, oh yeah, we can work on that. And trying to save that limb from being amputated. And they're like, wow, you guys really do that? Tyson E Franklin: And that doesn't surprise me. 'cause nearly anyone I ever talk to when I tell 'em I was a podiatrist and you just explain. What you do, and they go, well, I didn't know you did that. That sounds really interesting. Patrick Deheer: Sure. And I do all parts of Podiatrist and I like all of it. I'm [00:47:00] not above trimming a 90-year-old lady's toenails. I mean, if I can trim a 90-year-old lady's toenails in a corn on her little toe and she walks outta my office and feels immediately better that's an honor for me to be able to help somebody like that. And I take that very seriously. Tyson E Franklin: Okay. Well, on that note, Patrick, I wanna thank you for coming back on the Podiatry Legends Podcast. Sharing part, Oh geez. You sharing part of your story. It's gonna be a smidgen of what you've done. You have done so much. This has been it's been a pleasure having you on here, so thank you very much. Patrick Deheer: It's been awesome having a conversation with You're such a great interviewer. Thank you for having me on. Well, thank you. I'm gonna take that, I'm gonna take, that's a big compliment. Thank you very much. You're really good.
