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How Long 'Til Bedtime?Author: Allison Egidi Pediatric Sleep Coach
From baby sleep to toddler sleep, daycare naps to sleep trainingthis is the podcast for parents who want practical, guilt-free sleep tips. Hosted by pediatric sleep coach Allison Egidi, How Long 'Til Bedtime? delivers real solutions for everything from navigating newborn sleep struggles and weaning night feedings to helping your 3-year-old fall asleep independently (and stay asleep!). Whether you're trying to make sense of daycare sleep patterns, desperately want your evenings back, or just need a working mom podcast to keep you grounded, we've got you covered. Language: en Genres: Kids & Family, Parenting Contact email: Get it Feed URL: Get it iTunes ID: Get it |
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245. The Truth About Toddler Nutrition, Picky Eating, and Dinnertime Battles with Kathy O'Bryan
Episode 245
Tuesday, 23 June, 2026
Does dinnertime feel like the most stressful part of your day? Maybe your toddler refuses dinner, takes three bites and declares they're done, or suddenly becomes ravenous right as you're starting the bedtime routine. Allison is joined by pediatric dietitian Kathy O'Bryan to discuss one of the biggest sources of stress for parents of toddlers: mealtime. Kathy shares practical strategies to help parents take the pressure off dinnertime, understand what normal toddler eating actually looks like, and build healthy feeding habits that support both nutrition and family connection. Together, Allison and Kathy discuss why parents shouldn't put all of their eggs in the dinnertime basket, how daycare schedules can affect evening eating habits, and why a successful meal isn't always measured by how much your child eats. They also explore the connection between feeding, sleep, routines, and reducing the mental load that so many parents carry around meals. In this episode, you'll learn: • Why toddlers often eat less at dinner than parents expect • How to evaluate your child's nutrition over days and weeks, not individual meals • What "successful" mealtimes really look like • How to reduce pressure around picky eating • Why family meals matter even when life feels busy • Simple ways to make dinnertime feel less stressful and more connected • How your own nutrition and self-care affect your parenting Whether you're navigating picky eating, dinnertime battles, or simply wondering if your toddler is eating enough, this conversation will leave you feeling more confident and less stressed. Learn more about Kathy O'Bryan at her website or on Instagram 🎉 10-Year Anniversary Giveaways To celebrate 10 years of Sleep and Wellness Coach, Allison is hosting four weekly giveaways throughout June over on Instagram. On the first four Mondays in June, a new giveaway will be posted featuring a mix of sleep and wellness favorites. To enter, follow along on Instagram and watch for each Monday's post. It's a fun way to celebrate 10 years of supporting families—and to say thank you to the community that made it all possible. Click here to listen to the episode on YouTube Wondering if your child is getting enough sleep? Allison's free guides take the guesswork out of bedtime. Learn the optimal sleep ranges for every age so your little one can feel their best—day after day. Get your free copy now: 0-2 Years Old or 3 to 10 years old From baby sleep to toddler sleep, daycare naps to sleep training—How Long 'Til Bedtime? is the podcast for parents who want practical, guilt-free sleep tips they can actually use. Hosted by pediatric sleep coach Allison Egidi, each episode delivers real solutions for every stage—from navigating newborn sleep struggles and weaning night feedings to helping your 3-year-old fall asleep independently (and stay asleep!). Whether you're trying to make sense of daycare sleep patterns, craving your evenings back, or simply need a working mom podcast to keep you grounded, you're in the right place. Want more from Allison? Sign up here to get her weekly email with podcast updates and other helpful parenting topics. Enjoying How Long 'Til Bedtime? Your rating and review help Allison reach and support more parents. On Apple Podcasts: Click here, scroll to the bottom, rate the show, and tap "Write a Review." On Spotify: Click here to leave a rating or review. Don't miss an episode—subscribe so you're always up to date! Connect with Allison: Instagram | Facebook | Website | YouTube Episode Transcript: 245. The Truth About Toddler Nutrition, Picky Eating, and Dinnertime Battles with Kathy O'Bryan Hey there, Allison here. Welcome back to How Long 'Til Bedtime. If you have a toddler, there is a very good chance that dinner time in your house is a source of stress. Maybe your child won't sit at the table. Maybe they refuse everything on their plate. Maybe they eat three bites and declare that they're done. And then 20 minutes later, right when you're trying to start the bedtime routine, they're suddenly starving. Sound familiar? If it does, this episode is for you. Today I'm talking with Kathy O'Bryan, a registered dietitian who helps parents release themselves from mealtime stress so that they can feed their babies with confidence and transform their toddlers into mealtime adventurers. I think this conversation is going to reframe the way a lot of you think about your toddlers eating, and we hope it takes a significant amount of stress off your plate at dinner time. Hi, I'm Allison Egidi, a pediatric sleep and wellness coach, and a mom of two. I love to help parents find solutions. This is How Long 'Til Bedtime. Well, hi Kathy, welcome and thank you so much for joining me today. I'm super excited about this conversation because toddler eating and sleep are so deeply connected in my world. I was just telling you before we hit record that I just got off a consultation where it came up. And so I think what you have to share today is going to be really valuable for my listeners. But before we dive into all things related to dinner time, I always like to start by asking my guest the same first question, which is what inspired you to pursue your vocation? Kathy O'Bryan: Thanks so much for having me on today, Allison. I'm really excited for this conversation. And yes, I my name's Kathy. I have been a pediatric dietitian for 10 years. I spent the first seven years of my career working in a pediatric hospital. And then it wasn't until becoming a mom that I really realized how little guidance parents actually get on the feeding journey. So I had a lot of clinical experience. I had also dabbled in adult a little bit before I went into pediatrics. But so I had like eight years of clinical experience under my belt before becoming a mom and then starting my own business where I now coach parents to feed their babies and toddlers confidently. But it wasn't until I had that viewpoint of being a mom, and I started going to the pediatrician appointments myself, and I started feeding my son myself that I realized wow, nobody is holding my hand or telling me what to do. And if I didn't have my professional background to fall back on, I think I would have been a little panicked as a first-time mom. I can so relate to that because my struggle with my daughter's sleep kind of fell into that category where I was going to the pediatrician and asking for help. And ultimately I stumbled upon a sleep consultant who helped us. And when I went back to the pediatrician and said, I don't understand. I was in here for two years asking for help and you weren't able to help me. And I went to multiple pediatricians, she said, the truth is we are not trained in sleep in medical school, and she specifically said to me, it's similar to nutrition that unless we sought out additional education, which actually my pediatrician had sought out additional education in nutrition, because that was like a passion area of hers. But she said, unless we sought out additional education, the vast majority of pediatricians don't have a lot of education around nutrition and around sleep. So it's interesting because it's such a huge focus for parents and their children. And I think a lot of us I know I assumed that this was an area my pediatrician would know something about because now I've come to realize we expect our poor pediatricians to know everything about every topic related to our children. One hundred percent. I completely agree. And that's so much of what I saw even in the hospital setting and what I experienced as a dietitian working in the clinical setting was I always think from my pediatrician's standpoint, like she has, you know, maybe thirty minutes max with me and my child or with any parent and their child to cover so many parts of life and development that we can't spend all of our time just on nutrition, right? And I spent so many years being in that position where I was working with families and was limited in time and could only kind of information dump and be like, good luck, I hope that helps. But then there wasn't the real digging into life and habits and how do we actually make this apply to your day-to-day life and world. And that's why I love what I do today so much because I can actually dig into that and spend that time. Love it. All right. Well, let's dive in. The very vast majority of the time that I am working with a toddler who has sleep struggles, there is also some sort of dinner time struggle going on. And while I think you and I can agree that each situation is unique, parents are often referring to their dinner time struggle as having a child who has is a picky eater. And I know from personal experience, what it can feel like to have a child who's a naturally adventurous eater versus what it feels like to have a child who is a picky eater, because I did have one extremely picky eater and one naturally adventurous eater. So I think a good starting point is to define what it means to truly have a picky eater and kind of starting with the basics of what's the difference between a normal timeline for food introductions and food acceptance, or I guess the growing palate. And then what is kind of not normal is a in the development and starts to fall into the this is a picky eater or this child's going to need some extra support. Totally. So I think it's really important to give credit to how long it takes to actually learn food, especially with the population that I work with of babies and toddlers. I see a lot of parents kind of assuming that because their little one is no longer a baby, that they're past the part of like learning food, or they should just have it figured out in toddlerhood. And that's truly not the case. They are still learning so much. And so, especially in those first two years of life, we are really working on establishing their preferences, not trying to figure them out. That being said, after the first birthday, a lot changes. So physiologically, their growth rate slows down, and a lot of times appetite goes with that. So appetite decreases after the first birthday, as well as opinions start emerging, you know, toddler opinions, toddlers become more aware of their environment and how their behavior changes things, right? If I do X, then Y happens. They're starting to connect those dots. And so it's expected to actually see a change in eating behaviors after the first birthday. But a lot of times this is where panic is induced for parents when they see that change happen. And this is really where I encourage parents to not change what they are doing. What I mean by that is a lot of times this is where I see the shift from I'm introducing a wide variety of foods, my baby is naturally exploring and we're enjoying this, to then all of a sudden I'm making or chasing what I know or think my toddler will eat on any given day or at any given meal, right? So toddlers are essentially little food skeptics. Okay. And repeated exposure is so important to truly form those preferences. So a lot of parents will introduce something a few times and then determine they either like that food or they don't like that food. And if we determine they don't like that food, if we fall into that bucket, then a lot of times what I see is we stop serving it. When they're really , when they're little one really needs so much more exposure to actually determine a true preference. So true picky eating, right, does have a clinical definition, and I'll get into that in a second. But I do see many toddlers being labeled as picky way too soon. And I think that just limits them so much earlier than than they have to be. So, clinical definition of picky eating is like when eating habits or selectiveness is affecting weight gain or growth, if we're seeing entire food groups are being refused or omitted from the diet, or when your little one is like willingly eating less than about 20 foods. However, my definition of picky eating or when intervention may be a appropriate is when you feel concerned or stressed about your child's eating or when it's impacting meal times for your family or your everyday life. Because the truth is that when you're stressed about feeding your little one, baby, toddler, older child, or if you're stressed about food, that is going to impact your little one too. Yeah, very similar with sleep. Yeah. As you were talking, I was thinking about something that my pediatrician used to say to my daughter, who was a picky eater. I think at the time I had her evaluated by someone I met at a work conference who worked with picky eaters. She was eating twelve foods. And I can't remember how old she was. She was not a little toddler. She was a bit older. Sure. And she said, Yes, that is a a picky eater. And so we got her back on track. And I always tell everyone, She will eat. She's the bravest eater ever and she tries stuff that blows my mind now. But throughout that process, when she would have her wellness checks, because I had this pediatrician who cared about nutrition, she would always say, How are you doing, Ainsley, with your eating? And you know, Ainsley would kind of furrow her brow. And one thing she used to say to her is, Your taste buds change as you grow. And I can't remember if she said how often or the numbers, because this was years ago. But she used to tell her, it's just like they've been telling you, you've got to keep trying the foods. And you should try it and always just ask yourself, Did your taste buds change? Do you like it now? And I think she was older, but the power she gave her, I remember thinking, I don't even know if this is true or not, that the taste buds change. But as an older child, it gave her this chance to not be too stubborn because she could put it in her mouth, and then sometimes she would say, my taste buds still don't like that. Or sometimes she would say, it seems like my taste buds changed. And so I know that's not as much with this younger group, but I did fall into the panic group with her when she was little because she was my second, and my oldest ate all my homemade baby food like a champ. And it was like when your ego gets really big and you're like, my gosh, I'm killing it. I make the baby food. They she eats everything. I could take her to restaurants. She would eat off our plate. She was like so great as a toddler. And then my second just rejected all my homemade baby food. And it absolutely did start to send me into a panic because I thought I know what I'm doing. She wouldn't eat a single of my pureed food. She wouldn't eat finger foods. And then in my panic, and because someone suggested it, they were like, just try jarred food. Not that there's anything wrong with it. But then she got hung up where I was like, well, this she'll eat. And so I kind of threw in the towel a little bit. And I fueled, I think, her probably picky eating, but I fueled it by just being like, okay, fine. I I just I'm so desperate for her to eat. I'll let her eat this baby food. And I kind of gave up on really pushing to introduce until she got older. And I met someone who said I could help you with that. And I was like, great, perfect. Yeah. Yeah. And I do think it's so important to, you know, give credit to the fact that the all those things happen with the best intentions, right? Like you just wanted to see your daughter eat and thrive and be be okay, right? Get the nutrition that she needed. And so I always tell parents, like, I I'm never looking to place a fault or a blame on anyone who is struggling struggling with picky eating. And a lot of people will say, it's just a phase, or they'll grow out of it, right? And I so I think that's another piece to really think about and look at is if you've been doing the same thing for months and months and nothing is changing or getting better, you're no longer in a phase. This is building habits, right? But there are sometimes little blips in the road where it's like, we had a rocky few weeks, but now we're back on track, right? And so being able to clearly define: is this a phase, or am I actually stuck in repeatable patterns that are now building habits, we want to be able to identify the difference between the two. I think that's a really good point because this did not fix itself with my daughter. I mean, I ultimately did have to make a very intentional structured effort. So it kind of falls into the camp of in many things with parenting, it's sleep, and I think feeding falls in this category. It's never too late, but I could have fixed it way sooner if I had taken action sooner. So Right. Totally. Today I wanted to talk a little bit more specifically about dinner time. And, you know, dinner time's an interesting time, in my opinion, because a lot of the families I work with, both parents work. So we are dealing with a child who's probably having some sleep struggles, hence, they're in my orbit. And they are often in a childcare situation. So they're in a pretty exhausting situation, daytime situation. Like I say, it's stimulating. It's like you or I hanging out with our friends all day. And then they come home and they do not want to eat dinner. And it's one of the first things I hear about. We're struggling to even get to bedtime because they don't eat well when they come home. And as I'm sure you talk to people about sometimes being overtired and being hungry or not hungry, it all gets very commingled. And when you and I connected a while back, about the idea of this episode, you had mentioned that you like to help parents not put all of their eggs in the dinner time basket. And I thought, yes, I this I definitely want to ask about. We didn't really go into detail when we chatted before, but I'm curious what you meant by that when you said, let's not put all of our eggs in the dinner time basket. Absolutely. So when I'm looking at a toddler's intake, I'm looking at it over the course of a full day or even one to two weeks because nutrient needs aren't met in single meals, but over the course of multiple meals, multiple days. I think dinner often feels the most stressful because for a lot of parents, as you just described, like who are working where their little one is in a different child care situation like dinner time is the time of day where they actually see their little one eat. And depending on what else has happened in their day, it can easily feel defeating or quick to jump to thinking, like, why are they so picky? Right? Because you haven't actually seen what they ate at daycare all day long, whether they were meals or snacks or however else they were filling their tank throughout the day, what you're mostly seeing is what happens at dinner time. And so if you're not seeing a ton of intake there or variety or whatever you're looking for to define a successful mealtime, if you're not seeing it, it's really easy to jump to thinking, my gosh, they're so picky, or there's no way they're getting the nutrition that they need. So instead of looking at dinner time as the most nutritious or balanced meal of the day, I really work with parents to improve nutrition overall and look at all meals and snacks in the day as equal eating opportunities or essentially chances to meet key nutrient needs. And on that note, I also think with all of the like nutrition information out there today, it's really hard to make sense of what those needs actually are when everyone is telling you different things. You know, some people are saying, like, they need to eat more protein or make sure they get enough vegetables, and that just there's all this information coming at you all the time, and so it's really hard to know. Am I even on the right track? So it's important to actually have a clear understanding of what their needs are in order to simplify doing that, right? Otherwise you end up overthinking and making it a lot harder on yourself than it has to be. And so do you fall into the camp of thinking it could still be a successful meal and your child didn't eat? Yeah. Yes. I know that's really hard to say. I know that's hard for a parent to digest. Essentially, what I see that as is your child having autonomy and being allowed to listen to their body and their own cues. Now, there's also a lot of other layers that go into that. So we do want to make sure that your little one is fully supported at the table in the right ways, that the mealtime environment is conducive to them eating or exploring, that their routine is setting them up for success. There's so many other things that play into that that I want to know are being addressed in order to then say, yeah, if your little one doesn't eat dinner, we can trust them, right? But when we've looked at all those other layers and unpacked all of that, and we can say yes to all those other things, then being able to trust them to, you know, take one bite and say they're all done, or to not eat dinner, yes, I would just still define that as success when we are putting them in the driver's seat. Totally. Yeah, that was a big step for me to add the structure. The way we approached it was she got offered I say five meals a day, but that's because I feel like meals and snacks are kind of interchangeable when kids are little. Yeah, it's five that's the way to put it. Yes. Five eating opportunities. So she had a breakfast, a snack, a lunch, a snack, and then dinner. And so when she skipped dinner, which she would, I had to remind myself she ate. There were four other times today that she ate. And so I'm curious for the toddler. So if we're taking that one to three year old group, is that do you like that having kind of set structure around breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner? And do you think it should happen around the same time each day? Because some parents are very structured and some people are, you know, just going with the flow. Totally. So I don't think that rigid schedules are realistic for parents of young kids, especially babies or toddlers, because timing changes every day based on wake up times and naps and length of naps and maybe if siblings have extracurriculars that you have to be going to or if you're home versus if you're out and about. So instead of trying to hit exact time stamps in the day, I encourage following more of a predictable routine. So what you just essentially laid out of just having that predictable routine in your day of what follows what. And that allows predictability for both you and your little one. And this helps in so many areas of life, even outside of food, but also with boundary holding. So when you can confidently tell your little one when their next eating opportunity will be. So for example, if your two-year-old takes two bites of lunch and says they're all done, you can honor that and trust that. But then you get to tell them when their next eating opportunity will be and hold to that. So if they come back to you 30 minutes later asking for a snack, you get to remind them we just had lunch, but your snack will be in X amount of time, right? And you get to hold that boundary. As far as scheduled snacks for toddlers, yes, I do recommend snacks in between meals. Again, as another eating opportunity in their day, not that they have to be made up of snacky foods. Totally. I think that's a good point. Because toddler appetites are erratic and unpredictable to say the least. You know, yours and my appetite fluctuates from one day to the next, but not at the extent that a toddler's does. So what that means is that in the same way that we don't want to put all of our eggs in the dinner time basket, we're really not doing that with any single meal. Right. Because on a physical level, little ones' bellies are small and they should have an eating opportunity about every two to four hours throughout the day because they don't just like fill up at full meals like adults often do. Totally. I think that's a really good point. What about the child who refuses to sit at dinner? So I hear a lot about this when we're talking about just even getting bedtime started. And it always I always say bedtime kind of starts at dinner, in my opinion. You're starting to set your stage for the rest of your evening. And so what about those kids where the parents are saying they won't sit? They have to kind of play and then come back and take a bite, wander off play and come back and take a bite. Or I've been hearing a lot about I need to put a screen in front of them. They need to watch TV or they need to have a screen in order to get them to eat their dinner specifically. And so I guess that made me want to ask you, what is a reasonable amount of time? So if we just take, let's focus on our one to three year olds, to expect them to sit at the table to eat their dinner. And then I guess maybe I should expand on it. Do you think they should be sitting to eating or to eat? Or are you fine with this, what I would kind of describe as distracted eating? What are your thoughts on that? Yeah. So I love this question because I see a lot of unrealistic expectations around sitting at the table. And honestly, those unrealistic expectations are frequently what create stressful mealtimes to begin with. So, first of all, the in terms of timeline that you were saying, this is going to vary based on individual kiddos. I see some who are slower eaters, some who are faster eaters. So they're able, going to be some variation here, but generally speaking, an expectation of like five to ten minutes is appropriate, and I think I see a lot of parents thinking, well, they should be sitting for a full 20-30-minute dinner, and that is very unrealistic. I mean, for some little ones, that 10-minute mark is even not realistic, right? We can always put some strategies in place to help extend that amount of time for you in a way that also feel supportive to your little one but ultimately my goal is for little ones to have positive associations with mealtimes which means that we're not just like keeping them bound to the high chair if they're unhappy, right? Speaking of high chair, like first things first is we need to make sure that your little one is set up for success at the table. So do they have a high chair or a booster seat that is adjusted appropriately for their body? Do they have a footrest? Are they comfortable how they're sitting? Are they pulled directly up to the table to where they can be a part of the mealtime? Or are they like off to the side and expected to just eat by themselves? Do they have an example to follow is someone sitting and eating with them? Like these are all things that we need to address before looking at the behavior that we're seeing come out of your child. As far as the walking around and playing while eating. And you know, I again I know how all of these things happen. It all comes from a good place. Of course. Do not recommend this. Food needs to stay at the table. And this is largely because walking and eating, especially in this age group, when we're talking like that, one to three years, like walking and eating or being mobile and eating significantly increases choking risk. So this applies at mealtimes, you know, food needs to stay at the table, but even at snack time, even if you're not having a formal sit-down snack, right? Even if you're at the park or you're at a play date, you're at the library. At least have your little one sit down. Even if that's in your lap, even if it's not like in a high chair setting or situation, right? But being mobile, walking around, and being an unstable little waddling toddler with food is not safe. I also don't recommend using screens or TV. So, and I know that you said you're hearing that a lot, and I see this a lot in my world too. And unfortunately, it's become a really common practice for And it's I feel like it's picked up in recent years. Like even the last two to three years, I'm hearing about it a lot more than I did five years ago. Well, and I think there's you know, I if I go out to a restaurant, right, and I'm never in just normal life, like it's not like I'm looking to judge or anything like that, right? But it's you do notice there are so many iPads and tablets and phones like being stuck in front of babies in a high chair or toddlers in a high chair. And I know sometimes that starts as just like a I want to have a meal in peace from the parent's perspective. Yeah, an adult conversation. Right, but when that also turns into using that screen to get your little one to eat, it really decreases their ability to fully engage or interact with and learn food. And remember how I said earlier that toddlers are still in such a learning phase of eating that they need to be able to have their full attention on that food, or else it's really going to end up limiting them in the long run. The other piece is that a screen or TV takes away from their ability to listen to what their body is telling them. Totally. That's what I tell my kids. Yeah, it's like it takes away from being able to say, Am I hungry? Am I full? Right. And you could extrapolate this all the way into adulthood. If you're sitting in front of a TV, we call it mindless eating, right? It's essentially like eating without intention. And honestly, if it feels like turning the TV on is the only way your little one will eat, that is a definite sign that support is needed. Or else it will impact long-term eating habits and relationships. Yeah. Yeah, and one thing that again, I work with a lot of working parents where everything's a little bit tight. So it's, you know, we've got to get home, we've got to feed them, I've got to get them to bed and do all this. So a lot of times and I'm very empathetic to this because I didn't get home until six o'clock and I my kids went to bed at seven when they were in this toddler stage. A lot of parents are falling into the there's not time for us to make our meal and eat with them. I'm just trying to feed them. And one thing that I encourage them to do, and it sounds like you're along the same lines, but I'd be curious your thoughts of I'll say, well, sit at least sit with them and eat something. Like even if you're just having a small snack and then you're going to eat your dinner with your spouse, you know, after you put them to bed, that's fine, but that I find helps the child sit because what they really don't want to do is sit by themselves and eat at the table. Even though you're right there, you're in the kitchen. Usually they're saying I'm prepping something or cleaning the lunch boxes or doing something. But I always say just sit with them, chat with them for their ten minutes they're sitting in their chair. And that sometimes I think helps with that activity piece and the screens and some engagement. But I'm curious your thoughts on that when the parents are in this hectic work week and they're planning to eat before or after they put their child to bed because they're rushing just to get their child to bed. What do you think they should do to help make dinner time easier as far as like getting their child to sit for the five or ten minutes? Sure. So I love what you just said of sitting, at least sitting with them, right? I think that's a great first step because we also have to think about what your behavior is communicating to your child because we communicate with our actions, not with our words. Our little ones are learning to copy us, not to listen to our words, right? So if you're saying sit and eat, that is not nearly as effective as you sitting and eating and showing them what you want them to do. I think the other piece of that and a big part that I work on actually with my clients in my coaching program is being able to line up your routines so that you do have a plan in place for your meals that we are utilizing like meal planning tools or meal prep tools or things that can simplify your life around getting that food on the table because you probably don't love eating your dinner at nine o'clock at night after bedtime either, right? And it's really great to have that foundation or that habit established, established early on. Like if your long-term goal is to have family dinners and to use that time as quality time with your children, and that is, you know, I could go into so many different layers of why that's beneficial long term. but if that is your long-term goal, then we want to be practicing that now because it's not like life is just going to slow down and get easier for you at some point. Yes, their bedtime might get pushed a little bit later as they get older, and you might have more room or time in between work and bedtime, but then you know extracurriculars might get added or events might get added. Like life isn't just going to slow down. And so if we really look at okay, well how can I align what I'm doing around meal planning and even what I'm serving in grocery shopping and putting strategy behind all of those things so that you're not just like winging it every day. Yeah, totally. That also makes that time in the evening a lot less chaotic. Yes. And as you're saying that, it's coming back to me how structured I had to be with like having a plan for dinner when we were working with my daughter. Yeah. That there was no winging it when we needed to really take some steps forward. Right. And then we got to ease up once we made some progress. Yeah, but I do see too, it also helps to improve parents' eating habits. You know, I think it's really easy in this season of parenting little ones to kind of put your own nutrition or your own I mean, I consider nutrition a piece of self-care, right? So it's really easy to put your own self care, no matter how you define self-care, on the back burner when you have these little humans who are demanding all of your time and energy and love and you are happy to give that, right? Like you love doing that, but your caring for yourself also matters because how we nourish our own bodies gives us the capacity and the energy to show up and be fully present with our kids. Like I can't tell you how many of my clients have said I didn't realize how much connection I was missing out on with my child at dinner time because when we look at that day right and you really do only have maybe those hours of five to seven with your little one at the end of the day five to seven six to seven like that's your precious time that you get with them and if we're spending it just trying to check all these boxes and rush through dinner and bedtime it's like we're missing out on this opportunity to connect with our little ones and so I just love that's one of my favorite pieces of feedback to get from a parent when a mom is like, I feel like I'm actually connecting with my little one instead of just always trying to think of what to feed or how to feed or you know, all the all the mental load that comes with it. Well, and I think depending kind of everyone's background is different. But before we had kids, we were in Chicago and we worked a lot later and we ate later and the whole thing and then even when we were living here prior to having kids, just we traveled a lot. There's a lot of late eating. And so I remember there was a period for sure where we ate after we particularly when they were babies, we like ate after they went to bed. And when we shifted that and became the people who totally eat at five PM or go to the restaurant at five PM and do all those things, I laugh now because now my husband's like, We don't have to be those people anymore. And I'm like, my gosh, but I sleep so much better when we eat by six. Like everything is so much better. So now I fall into the camp of thinking these early dinners that happen at six, six thirty, it is like self care for me because I sleep so much better when I eat the early dinner and I did not appreciate that back in the day. One hundred percent. Totally. I love being a little grandma. I'm like early dinner and in bed by like nine PM with a book. I'm happy. Hundred percent. We are on the same page there. So I do think it's important to acknowledge that parents can do everything perfectly. You could give them like a perfect plan and to set their child up for mealtime success and they may still have a child who refuses to eat or just as you said eats two bites and declares that they're done. And that is discouraging and frustrating. And so we talked a little bit about being okay with that and that some meals our kids won't eat much. But can you explain the division of responsibilities that you previously have mentioned to me and what you mean by that? Because I think that helps in that whole kind of reframing how we look at a child potentially not eating what we put out. 100%. That can totally feel defeating, but what we really have to understand here is that it's not your job to get your child to eat. That's essentially what the division of responsibilities states is that it's the parents' job to determine what, when, and how food is served. And this applies from day one of the feeding journey. So whether you're feeding a baby or a toddler or an older child, this applies across the board that it's the parent's job to determine what, when, and how food is served, and it's the child's job to determine if what of from what is served or how much to eat of it. And believe me, I know this is hard to do, right? I actually spend weeks with clients working on this one principle because on paper it feels really easy to say. But then in real life, when you're at the table and that situation does happen, right? They take two bites and say they're all done and your brain immediately spirals, like thinking they're going to bed hungry. Maybe we're thinking it's going to impact their sleep tonight, wondering if you need to make something different? Do I need to give them something else just to make sure something gets in their belly, right? This is often where we start making things that we know our little ones will eat. And again, that ends up really limiting them in the long run and kind of leaves you stuck eating things that you don't even want to eat if you're making like one meal for the family. So, yes, we do have to be comfortable with giving up that piece of control. And again, that's why I'm working with parents to improve nutrition overall, not just at dinner time, so that when that unpredictability of dinner time strikes, you you're not spiraling. And I do also want to kind of touch on the opposite side of this. I think a lot of times we look at, you know, what happens when my toddler doesn't eat very much or isn't hungry. And this also goes the other way, right? Where it's like they actually love eating, they eat a decent amount of whatever you serve, but maybe they will only eat a lot of the carbs, or maybe they will only eat a lot of the dairy. And so it's not necessarily that they're taking two bites and saying they're all done, it's like we're eating one food on our plate and then asking for more, more, and more, but we're not willing to touch something else on our plate. And that is another aspect of the division of responsibility, is that it's still that ball is still in their court to determine what from what you serve that they choose to eat, right? It's not your job to get them to eat overall, but it's also not your job to get them to eat specific foods from what you serve. And would you continue to serve so we're not making new food, but would you continue to serve them more of the one food that they are willing to eat at that meal? Yeah, that's what we did for my daughter. It really did help. I was like, you want unlimited taco meat? Okay. I would. And then you know what? I'm it's my favorite thing when a parent is like, they only want to eat the taco meat, for example. And I'm like, okay, let's talk about all of the protein, the iron, the zinc, like how much benefit they're getting from that food, right? Because I think sometimes when we're just honed in on what they're not eating, we're not thinking about the nutrition that they're getting from what they are eating. Right. And so that's another aspect of what I love to do from a nutrition side for parents is like I truly you could tell me any food and I could get I could name a nutritional benefit for you, right? And so I think it's important to have that perspective too of there's not one better, best food that we need to be focused on all the time. Again, we're looking at that overall variety that comes over the course of days and weeks. Yeah, and as you were talking about that division of responsibility, it was just reminding me of something that I'm often telling parents I work with is to remember that kids thrive with structure and limits. Yes. And that when something is painful, and this is true to this day for me, almost any area of parenting, when I get stuck in a repetitive, painful pattern, I always at this point, I won't say I do it immediately, but like when it gets painful enough, I always take a step back and I say, Okay, what structure do I not have in place right now that I need for this to run smoother? And that could be a morning routine. It could be how we get out the door. Literally could be anything. My most recent one is for us, it was having our kids help with clearing the table because my kids are older. They're eleven and thirteen. And it was kind of helping with the post dinner activities. And we were just having this bickering over like, I did it last time and she doesn't do it now and whatever. And it went on and on. And I stopped saying, like, I don't want to hear about fairness, which was what I was saying. And I started to say, I need to come up with a structure. Like that the answer is I need a structure for our end of dinner. And it was like immediate relief. And so I do think it's important, and this is true for a dinner time structure or a bedtime routine. To remind ourselves that kids thrive with structure and routine and that it's okay to say no. Because when you're talking about should I go make something else, it what it makes me think of is when the kid asks for all the extra things in the bedtime. And I'm like, no, that's not part of the routine. Like just have a set routine and it's okay to say no. And they're okay, they're allowed to have big feelings about that. And it's kind of similar to what you were saying with the dinner structure. Like you have a design structure. And it's okay to say no. So along those lines, I'd love to know what you think about saying no to the bedtime snack when a child either did or didn't eat their dinner, and then suddenly you're, you know, getting ready to tuck them into the bed. They're like, I'm hungry, I need a snack. I'm curious your thoughts on saying no to the bedtime snack. Yes. So this is where you are the expert, not me, in terms of sleep and at the bedtime routine. But oftentimes I see that that bedtime snack request is actually being used as a stall tactic, not out of true hunger. So as hard as it is, holding that boundary and sticking to the routine of like whatever their last planned eating opportunity in the day was is what I recommend. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, language that I'll have parents to use is say, I totally get that, but the kitchen is closed because dinner is done and you'll be able to eat as much as you want once your light turns green and the kitchen opens back up and Yeah. And I think like for toddlers, right, in in that age group, like I tell parents too, like you don't even owe an explanation. It's just hold the boundary. Like they're it's not their job to understand all of the Well yeah, because a two year old doesn't understand that the kitchen is closed. I work with a lot of older kids who are trying to get snacks too, but yeah. Right. So I'm more looking at just just stating and holding the boundary of, Yeah, we had dinner and we'll eat again in the morning. And then moving on quickly to what the next thing is. Like, let's read your book. Let's sing our song, right? Like not sitting in that back and forth and trying to get into negotiation. And then also for parents of toddlers too, I'm looking at and you mentioned this with your daughter also, like reminding them to look back or think back over the course of their day because a lot of times that is if we're asked for that snack, that's like a trigger for you to start spiraling into are you actually hungry? Now I feel guilty that I'm sending you to bed hungry, right? And it's like this guilt trip that goes on in your head that you start questioning yourself: should I do this? Should I not do this? And that's when we want to be able to look back over the course of the day and remind ourselves: okay, they were filling their tank throughout the day, right? Like sleep, and I know you go way deeper into this, but like nighttime sleep is not just hinged on what happens at dinner time, it's hinged on the whole day, or all of our nutrition in the whole day. And so we have to remember that that bedtime snack, even let's say you you gave in and you gave them that bedtime snack, their nighttime sleep isn't going to be like made or broken based on that bedtime snack. So Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Okay, let's take a little turn to the concern about a a child who may not be getting the nutrition they need. If someone's listening and thinking, yeah, this is all fine and dandy, but my child literally is not eating very much nutritious food, what do you suggest for that parent? Particularly I guess if they are going to the pediatrician and the pediatrician is kind of saying, It will pass, they'll outgrow it What is kind of a a step that they can take? So, first thing I'll say and then I'll kind of go into my deeper thoughts on this, but I do think that there is an important piece, and this is kind of where you know the name of my business is the Mini Me Dietician. And that came from acknowledgement of the parents influence in the child's eating habits, right? And this is not a casting blame or pointing fingers, right? Not every pediatric feeding struggle comes back to what the parent is doing by any means, but it is important to look at what are your eating habits and what foods are you bringing in your home. Do we have predictable mealtime schedules, right? Like, do we have all these things in place again that are going to set your little one up for success? And they do need an example to follow. So I think it's always important and I just think that we're quick to look at my little one isn't doing this, I need to fix them, right? And a lot of times it's outside of them that we need to actually work on or fix. And so looking at am I creating the structure or the example for them to follow that is going to help them eat a wider variety of nutritious foods, right? How many times a day am I serving vegetables? Am I even serving vegetables? I can't be frustrated about my child not eating vegetables if they've never seen me eat one, right? So I think that's an important piece to consider. Aside from that, if you are genuinely concerned or worried, you're like, Yeah, I do all those things, and I'm still worried, right? You, first of all, you're not crazy. I talk to a lot of parents who are like, maybe I'm just overthinking it, and everybody else seems fine, and my friends say it's fine, and you know, you're looking to all these outside things to tell you if you should be worried or not. And if you are worried, you are worried, and that is okay, right? I work with a lot of anxious and worried parents, and it always comes from the best place. Sometimes those concerns are because their little one really isn't getting the nutrition for like weight gain or growth that they need, and we're able to improve that with the right nutritional strategies, and sometimes they actually are getting enough nutrition to maintain growth, but again, the right nutritional strategies strategies are able to improve overall nutrition and meal time experiences and relationship with food. So, my take is always if you are worried, your concerns are valid, and there is a lot more support available to you outside of just hearing it's normal or it's just a phase that you might hear from other people. I have worked with a lot of families in my 10 years as a dietitian, and I can tell you with 100% confidence that the earlier the intervention, the better. Because the first two to three years of life really are setting the stage for lifelong eating habits and food preferences and relationships with food. So just like waiting to see is like one of the biggest mistakes I see parents make, unintentionally, of course, but the sooner your little one gets the support that they need and that you get the support that you need too, like you won't be working at it harder later. Yeah. And I think your point of our structure and taking that step back and looking at our what we're demonstrating. And that's again, not to there's so many things we do where we like put more guilt onto ourselves. But I think what it's making me think of, again, this was my kids were older. So this was in 2020. So my kids were like six and seven. But I went on a very restricted diet to address my autoimmune disease. And I wish for the life of me I could remember where I ran into this dietitian, and what the situation was, because it wasn't someone I knew well. But somehow I ended up, I don't know, at a dinner table with a dietitian. And I said, I have a lot of concerns about I'm starting this diet and it's going to be very restrictive, and that my girls are going to see that. And I, of course, I grew up where all the moms were talking about diets constantly, and so I'm very thoughtful. I remember telling her, like, we would I would never use the word diet in my house and whatever. And she had an interesting take. She said, What you're doing is a diet. And she said, I think it's fine. It's actually how you use the word diet. And she was like, So you're going to need to tell them, I have to go on this special diet so that I can be healthy and strong. And we're going to learn what type of foods I can eat to help me be healthy and strong. She was like, so she gave me kind of some language to use. And on that journey that I've been on now for six years, I ultimately realized that I have to eat these three balanced meals and I have to have a protein and I have to have a vegetable and I have to have starch and I have to have a healthy fat. And it was a really like big turning point when I had to bring back the starch and through and she had encouraged me. She's like, I think you should tell your kids what you're learning as you go. And I was like, okay. So I have, and you know, sometimes they're interested, sometimes they're not. But they will sometimes look at their dinner plate and they'll say, Good job, mom. I see you got us a protein, a vegetable, a starch, and that that over there, that's your healthy fat. I'm like, my gosh. But some of that was me just talking about my diet, for lack of a better word, and understanding what makes me healthy and strong. And it sometimes I really it does make me smile to hear them kind of reflect now that they're older, some of that back to me. And so I agree with what you're saying. I don't think people should underestimate even though your two and three year old really acts like they don't care, these little seeds are getting planted for how they're going to think about food. Yeah, I love that. I I can relate to that on so many different levels and not just in the in the regards of like being on a specific diet, right? But like for you that was like a medically a medical need, right? So you weren't using that term diet as like I'm dieting to lose weight or to whatever external result that most people usually use diet in the context of. But like the definition of diet is w what you eat, right? That's what our diet is it's what you eat, it's not going on a diet. Our diet is what we eat, and so I think just being able to do that and model that to your girls is so cool, and is essentially like what I have seen in my son's four and a half now, and like when he was three years old, he was helping me build his plate, and he would be like, I need a fruit, I need a vegetable, I need a carb, I need a protein, right? And that was I never told him those things, right? Those are just things that we did what from day one. It's just what we've done, right? And so again, actions speak so much louder than words. Totally. Well, before we wrap up, I would love to know if you just have one, two, three things that you think, hey, here's some little things you could shift right now that are going to make dinner time a little bit easier with your toddler. Yeah. So we've talked about a couple of these and I know some of them feel maybe lofty, but I want you to think of them in terms of how can I do this simply or realistically, right? I'm never looking nobody's perfect. We nobody can be perfect. But I think the number one thing I would say is to start eating with your little one. Even if just a couple times a week, right? Yep. So where you're either doing kind of what Allison said and ha sitting down and eating at least something with them when they're having dinner, even if it's not your full dinner. but then maybe even making moves towards like how could we align our dinner times so that this could also be like family time together. number two would be taking the focus off of the food. Asking your little one to take by, or trying to get the food in their mouth is backfiring on you. So I would take the focus off of the food. And then lastly, if you're facing food refusal, I know we've talked about that a decent amount. So if you're one of the parents who's facing food refusal or not touching certain foods or throwing a lot of food, I know that can be a really frustrating habit, but start with smaller portions on their plate. So large portions can feel really overwhelming to little ones. And this is another place that I see a lot of unrealistic expectations. I could talk for hours. this is another place that I see a lot of unrealistic expectations is like toddlers are not just mini adults who are supposed to eat like adult portion sizes. And so if we're building their plate with portion sizes that are larger, even they might not even feel that big to you, but it might feel big to your child. and if mealtime feel extra defeating because you're like wasting a lot of food or it's being fed to the dog. Just start smaller. It'll help that plate feel less overwhelming to your child and it'll help you to waste less food. I love that. We did that even with my daughter, even though she was a little bit older. It was a spoonful of each food, which was back from it she was older and I was like, wow, we're going all the way back. And it was like, Yep, a spoonful at a time. And then you can put more on. Yeah, you can all It was a r really random tip that I thought was very helpful. So I love that you shared that. Well, this has been so great. How can my listeners find you? Yeah. Well yes, thank you so much for having me. I loved this conversation. you can find me on Instagram at the Mini Me Dietician on my website www.theminimedietitian.com, or I also have my own podcast. It's called Food for Tot (T-O-T) that you can tune into on Apple or Spotify. Okay, perfect. Well, we will be sure to link to all of those things in the show notes. And thank you so much for joining me today, Kathy. I really appreciate it. And thank you for listening. Bye for now.
