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What Baboons Reveal About Bullies, Coercion, and Fake Apologies - Dr. Christine Webb
Episode 210
Tuesday, 4 August, 2026
A primatologist spent years watching a baboon troop and documented the exact behaviors survivors describe: the bully who escalates at random, the apology that arrives with an audience, the group that reorganizes itself around one individual's temper. None of it was your imagination. All of it is on record.Dr. Christine Webb is a Harvard-trained primatologist and Assistant Professor at New York University, where she is part of the Animal Studies program. Her book is The Arrogant Ape: The Myth of Human Exceptionalism and Why It Matters."He put his hand between my hiking boots, he looked up at me, and he bared his teeth into this very awkward, forced grimace."In this conversation we cover why aggression is rarely about the thing it appears to be about, what reconciliation actually restores, and the critical difference between an apology and a submission display. Dr. Webb also walks through the Sapolsky study in which a troop's most aggressive males died off and the group's culture changed permanently, a change that outlasted every animal who had lived through it.If you have ever been told you were reading too much into it, this episode is a record of researchers reading exactly that much into it, on purpose, with notebooks.RESOURCESChristine's book: https://amzn.to/4wxU4BkChristine's website: https://www.cewebb.com/Christine's papers: https://www.cewebb.com/papersSapolsky & Share, "A Pacific Culture among Wild Baboons" (PLoS Biology, 2004):https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pbio.0020106Brad's microphone: https://amzn.to/4jVOjqqWATCH NEXTRobert Greene on The Laws of Human Nature: https://youtu.be/64MsV-FECsY🔔 SUBSCRIBE to help get more guests on the show: https://goo.gl/uEAeNp#CoerciveControl #NarcissisticAbuse #primatology 00:00 In This Episode00:56 Introducing Dr. Christine Webb01:22 What Aggression Actually Does in a Group04:58 The Mobbing: When the Group Turns on You08:08 The Apology That Broke the Rules10:47 Are Apologies Ever Sincere?11:51 Why Words Are the Weakest Evidence17:48 Consolation: Comfort From a Bystander20:06 The Rule That Trains Scientists to Doubt Animal Minds26:12 Unique vs. Superior28:29 When a Leader Has Zero Empathy29:38 The Troop That Changed After the Bullies Died32:40 How a Group Handles a Despotic Leader34:39 Coerced Females: Dr. Webb's Own Research39:28 Chimps vs. Bonobos: The Stereotype Problem45:05 Bluff Displays: Getting Loud to Get Your Way50:56 The Lab, the Cages, and MacDuff57:34 Prison Populations and the Psychopathy Problem01:01:53 The Translation Crisis in Animal Research01:05:51 Find Dr. Christine Webb Online01:06:09 What Primates Teach Us About Repair01:08:46 Further Recommendation: Robert Greene on The Laws of Human Nature
