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The Leadership PodcastAuthor: Jan Rutherford and Jim Vaselopulos, experts on leadership development
We interview great leaders, review the books they read, and speak with highly influential authors who study them. Language: en Genres: Business, Management Contact email: Get it Feed URL: Get it iTunes ID: Get it |
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TLP493: "Sand People" - The Hidden Drag on Your Team's Performance
Episode 493
Wednesday, 7 January, 2026
Jim and Jan tackle the uncomfortable truth about "sand people," those team members who grind everything to a halt, and why even your best glue guy can't overcome the friction they create. Drawing from their coaching experience, Jim and Jan reveal how to identify and deal with sand people before they destroy your team. They explore the telltale signs—projecting, hoarding resources, passive-aggressive behavior—and explain why leaders consistently wait too long to act. They also share the harsh truth that someone who is not performing well is costing more than they produce, and costing opportunities and damaging team morale in ways that are difficult to quantify. In this episode, you'll learn how sand people self-identify through their behavior, the specific ways they inhibit high performance, and most importantly, why it's critical to move quickly.. Find episode 493 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Jim and Jan on "Sand People" - The Hidden Drag on Your Team's Performance https://bit.ly/tlp-493 Key Takeaways [01:35] Jim coined the term "sand people" to describe team members who act as sand in the gears, preventing smooth team operation. [03:05] Jan noted that 60% of people in the U.S. are not in high-value jobs with only 31% engagement, creating a disconnect between economic growth and worker fulfillment. [05:12] Sand people often project by complaining about what others aren't doing, which is exactly what they themselves aren't doing. [07:34] Jan confirmed that one bad person on a team poisons everything, making it impossible to have a successful team experience. [12:33] A-players immediately avoid sand people and start looking for better teams because they expect leaders to uphold standards. [16:04] Jim witnessed Larry Yost pick up a cigarette butt when no one was watching, demonstrating how modeling behavior matters more than words. [19:17] Jan admitted being a sand person as a young cynical military officer, making wisecracks without anyone coaching her on the impact. [21:05] Jim acknowledged being too harsh early in his management career and emphasized the importance of learning from mistakes. [22:06] Jan's biggest business mistake was bragging about new hires then keeping them too long trying to fix them instead of recognizing sunk costs. [23:49] Jim advocated hiring for unteachable qualities like curiosity in salespeople rather than skills you can train. [26:34] Jan recommended "Top Grading" by Brad Smart for distinguishing between easy-to-change skills and hard-to-change qualities like energy and passion. [33:36] Leaders must be attracted to friction to identify where to remove resistance and lubricate the machine for team effectiveness. [29:57] Jan identified two coaching buckets: helping people prioritize time strategically and having difficult conversations about performance expectations. [33:21] And remember… "The path of least resistance is the path of the loser." - H. G. Well Quotable Quotes "If getting rid of people is easy for you and you don't lose sleep over it, you're probably a sociopath." "The day it gets easy for you is the day you've kind of lost your soul." - "We've got to have good friction. Friction that produces traction, not friction that produces drag." "Your culture becomes the worst behavior you tolerate." "One bad person, even if they're a little bad, is way more powerful than the best person for a team." "Look for work, look for things to do, and give more than you take." - "Sand people are limiting your culture. They are in effect a toleration of sub optimal performance of weakness." "If we pay people that aren't getting the job done, then they're either a charity case or they are a thief." "As a leader, I think we need to be attracted to friction." "People are not fine wine." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Jan Rutherford LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/janrutherford Jan Rutherford X | @JanRutherford Jim Vaselopulos LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/jimvaselopulos Jim Vaselopulos xX | @jim_va
