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HypervelocityAuthor: James Simpkin
A podcast about the impact of military technology on strategy and ethics. Language: en Contact email: Get it Feed URL: Get it iTunes ID: Get it Trailer: |
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Atomic Steppe with Dr Togzhan Kassenova
Sunday, 8 June, 2025
Dr. Togzhan Kassenova is a Washington, DC-based senior fellow at SUNY-Albany’s PISCES and a nonresident fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. She specializes in nuclear politics, WMD nonproliferation, strategic trade controls, sanctions, and financial crime prevention. Her current work focuses on countering proliferation financing. She holds a Ph.D. in Politics from the University of Leeds. From 2011 to 2015, she served on the UN secretary general’s Advisory Board on Disarmament Matters. For this month’s episode of Hypervelocity, I was joined by Dr. Togzhan Kassenova to discuss her book Atomic Steppe: How Kazakhstan Gave Up the Bomb (Stanford University Press, 2022). Togzhan’s work powerfully recounts the impact of the Soviet nuclear programme on the people and nation of Kazakhstan, as well as the country’s efforts to denuclearise after the collapse of the USSR—an experience that echoes the histories of other colonial nuclear testing grounds, such as Australia, the Pacific Islands, and Native American lands.What stands out in Togzhan’s account are the deeply human stories of resistance, resilience, and at times, dark humour in the face of the devastating legacy of nuclear testing. Her work also challenges classic International Relations theories that treat states like ‘Kazakhstan’, the ‘USSR’, or the ‘United States’ as black boxes of foreign policy. Instead, she highlights the agency of individuals—both among the general public, who organised anti-nuclear protest movements, and among diplomats, who built personal relationships and trust across borders to make denuclearisation possible. These efforts were crucial in helping Kazakhstan give up the nuclear weapons it inherited from the Soviet Union and chart a new path.Togzhan’s writing also critiques the assumptions of game theory, demonstrating that it is possible for nations to enhance their security without resorting to the zero-sum logic of mutually assured destruction. In fact, following its decision to relinquish its nuclear arsenal, Kazakhstan emerged as a model state in upholding international law, swiftly joining agreements such as the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty and the Non-Proliferation Treaty.Later in the episode, we explore whether—given Russia’s invasion of Ukraine—Kazakhstan was right to give up its nuclear weapons. Finally, we catch up on what is happening today with the survivors of the Soviet-era nuclear tests.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Toghzan Kassenova and Her Work02:10 The Impact of Nuclear Testing in Kazakhstan08:57 Kazakhstan's Decision to Denuclearize16:07 The Infrastructure of Nuclear Testing20:25 Kazakhstan's Role in Global Nuclear Disarmament29:30 The Importance of International Treaties35:17 Human Connections in Nuclear Disarmament41:31 Kazakhstan as a Model for Disarmament45:37 Reflections on Security and Nuclear Deterrence50:05 The Legacy of Nuclear Testing on Survivors55:32 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
