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Dishing with Stephanie's DishHost of Emmy award-winning TV show Taste Buds with Stephanie, Author of "True North Cabin Cookbook," blogger at stephaniesdish.com, radio host of "The Weekly Dish", podcaster at "Dishing with Stephanies Dish" and contributor on Fox 9s The Jason Show. Author: Stephanie Hansen - @StephaniesDish
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Tim Niver owner of Mucci's restaurant and Podcast Host of Niver Niver Land
Friday, 30 January, 2026
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where we talk to people in the food space, cookbook writers, people that are obsessed with food. And I’m really delighted today to speak with Tim Niver. He is the host of the Niver Niverland podcast and also a restaurateur in St. Paul, our fine capital city. He owns Mochis, also is a friend. And I was just noticing in my calendar, we recorded about a year ago today.Subscribe to Niver Niver Land on YoutubeListen to the PodcastVisit Mucci’s ItalianTim Niver:Yeah, well, I know we recorded before. I don’t remember the, the date, but I’m glad to, I’m glad to be back on. It’s, it’s, it’s a good time to talk about things.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah. And we. I’m going to release this podcast on Friday, so it’ll be timely. I moving it up in my schedule because we have been under extreme stress as restaurateurs and people in the hospitality industry basically for the last two months. But really increasingly in the last two weeks as ICE agents, 3,000 of them have started roaming the streets of Both Minneapolis and St. Paul and our surrounding suburbs and towns, asking people for papers, going into restaurants, stopping cars on the road, doing traffic enforcement type stops, going to people’s homes, taking children as little as 2 and 5 years old. And unfortunately, these actions have resulted in the shooting of Renee Good also over the weekend on Saturday, the shooting of Alex Pretty. And it is so interesting.As this podcast was being released, a relief fund for Minnesota restaurants was launched by Stephanie March with support from The Minneapolis Foundation. You can give here:Stephanie Hansen:I was on the air live with my radio partner Stephanie March on Saturday morning when the second shooting happened, which technically is the third shooting because there was another one where someone was shot in the leg in their house, defending themselves with a shovel and a broom. What I just am so wanting people to hear from Minneapolis and St. Paul and Minnesota in general is that the actions that are happening here, A, are not legal, B, are not law enforcement, and C, are creating so much harm to a community that has been trying to recover for the last five years since the COVID pandemic. And I’m so. It’s always restaurants. We’re the canary in the coal mine. Right.Tim Niver:I’m, I’m listening. And it’s hard to refute anything you said. Number one, there’s a, restaurants are involved in particular in moments of social change, were involved in helping support, care for the community at large. As a product of them supporting and caring for us at large, it’s a debt that we want to owe to the community. But there’s a lot of pressure to act and, and it’s not always an easy decision because we’re business people in this. In this state, business feels insignificant altogether. And then to continue to participate appropriately on whatever way you can is, I think, ultimately where we all need to be. Whatever we can do, whatever you feel like you want to do, that should be enough for people.But there’s a lot of expectation.Stephanie Hansen:It’s fascinating, too, because when I say that restaurants are the canary in the coal mine, I feel like when these situations happen or civil unrest happens or starts to unfold, we see it in the restaurant community because it is communal spaces. But then we also lean on the restaurateurs and people to provide food and community. And there’s so much expectation not only for you to, hey, run your business and serve me my pizza in a timely fashion, but can you also donate and feed my whole community and show up? And it’s so interesting because you guys do. Yes, you do. You can.Tim Niver:We do it despite being able to.Stephanie Hansen:Because you are hospitalitarians in your heart. Like, yeah, that is why you stay in this business. It is a level of service and leadership.Tim Niver:Yeah, yeah, it’s. I just think it’s a matter of care, which is what we innately provide. And when there’s moments where care is especially needed. You’ve seen this community react in full. The restaurant community and the community at large, like, we’ve all reacted in full. We’ve been there for each other. It’s inspiring.Stephanie Hansen:It is inspiring. And it’s ongoing.Tim Niver:Yeah, it’s ongoing. It’s an economic occupation as well. Completely affects and dampens any kind of feelings of joy. The. The way you might want to express yourself on a birthday feels different. The way you want to express yourself on an anniversary might feel different. Things that we celebrate, that we, as restaurateurs, try to preserve. Now we’re changing our language to It’s really nice to have you here. Even the things we say prompting, you know, it’s. It’s not. It’s discompassionate, perhaps, to ask somebody how they’re doing right now. So. So we’re talking to each other in a whole new language based on how. How things feel. It’s pervasive on all levels. But we have to persist, right? We have to, as a business, even though it feels insignificant in the moment, you have to persist. You have to do the things through an, you know, austerity or what have you to understand clearly what you’re able to support and give. And then on the Inside, you have to make the decision about folks who need every single hour of work that they get per week to stay afloat. Many restaurants are the same way. And so, you know, this kind of doubles down on a time that is not normally busy. It’s a huge multiplier effect.Stephanie Hansen:It’s like 20 below in January and has been for about a week in the Twin Cities with another potential week ahead.Tim Niver:Right. And, you know, it does keep people in the suburbs. That interaction between the inner parts of the city, it becomes a more of a bubble. So, you know, and understanding security. It’s true. Like, I get it. You know, these are all real things. Overall, it’s a big pill to swallow.Stephanie Hansen:And the weight is getting really heavy. The reason I think you’re uniquely qualified to speak to me today is I want people to know that in 2025, you were the James Beard semifinalist for outstanding hospitality, and you are known in our community for providing great food, great service, but your whole being and your whole approach to care and hospitality within the confines of our restaurant’s four walls is what you’ve really done your entire career. And you’ve mentioned that that looks like it’s changed. It has to change. It has to be modernized in light of the times and the moments that we find ourselves in.Tim Niver:Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we began to lean more, lead more with compassion after George Floyd and Covid, trying to understand, you know, there’s also a lot of strengthened worker rights. A lot of things have been changing over the years, and in good fashion. But also, I guess the thing that we. We try to do is just stay with it. We’ve been through some of these similar feelings before. They’re triggering.Stephanie Hansen:And thank you for saying that, because I. I do think that is a uniquely Minnesota thing in that five years ago, when the George Floyd murder happened, and, well, the lockdowns were first, and then the George Floyd murder. Like, when I hear a helicopter, I feel very anxious. I feel like a trauma of what is happening. I’m heightened. I’m scared. I’m looking around. I’m wondering if there’s some breaking news.It’s hard to describe that to people who haven’t lived under that complete fear of what’s next.Tim Niver:Yeah. And in many parts of the world, they live like that every day.Stephanie Hansen:And also true. Yeah. And. Oh, gosh.Tim Niver:But we certainly do gain a perspective that nobody else could have. It also provided ample levels of or already set types of organizations in times of need. People had done this before.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah. And it mobilized quick. How Fast people.Tim Niver:Well, you know, we’re trying to. We’re all trying to protect somebody here. We’re all trying to protect somebody. So I really feel like having had experience like that, you have a new generation of restaurateurs and thinkers like Rectangle Pizza. They lead with love, but they’ll fight for it. Just such heart and fearlessness. That’s. That’s fearlessness.I don’t contain that. I don’t contain that. Thank God they do. Thank God they do.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah.Tim Niver:And they’re thrust into it too, like being where they are.Stephanie Hansen:To give some context, Wrecktangle Pizza put out a mutual aid fund and I think they raised at last count, over a hundred thousand dollars of. Oh, over two.Tim Niver:I believe it’s over two through selling.Stephanie Hansen:Pizzas and collecting donations. And that money is going back into their communities. And we’ve seen a lot of that. These mutual aid funds that people have just started on their own.Tim Niver:Then they were visited the next, the following day after they did that by Ice2, perhaps recognizing that they were part of some resistance by helping take care of people and, you know, it just. How is that imaginable?Stephanie Hansen:What do you. I. It’s hard to describe the. It’s hard to describe the impact that the diverse population and immigrant population has had on the restaurant business as a whole. I think some people believe that everyone who works in a restaurant that is a black or a brown person is somehow an illegal person. And it’s ignorant and I’m not sure people fully know, but there is this sort of idea too, like, well, these owners. These owners are employing these people without papers and we’re just getting the bad guys. Can.You’ve been in this industry a long time. This industry is made up of a lot of people.Tim Niver:Yeah. You know, honestly, you hire somebody, you have to do the paperwork. That’s the only way they can get paid. And I am not an ID expert. I do not run this through some sort of machine that tells me exactly where the documents are. We’ve. We’ve been very, very fortunate just for a matter of retention that we’ve done so little hiring. It made moochies in particular, but in general that, you know, it’s just part of the first day packet, but you have to take care of it.Tim Niver:It’s. It’s immensely important to the infrastructure of a business to be organized in such a way and still mistakes can be made. But for me in particular, it’s never a question. It’s like, you have to have this to work. It’s so easy. Either you do or you don’t.And when you pay someone and give them a paycheck, there is an employment tax that’s attached to that paycheck.Yeah. Oh, yeah. Their own. And then we match. Yeah, we. No, nobody gets around that. There’s no way for them not to pay taxes unless somebody’s doing something illegal. But everybody’s got to do the same paperwork.They get the same i9 w4 and w2 at the end of the year. You know, it’s all stated. That doesn’t make somebody legal either. But in terms of when you hire somebody, you go through and you. You do what you can to do everything right. And hopefully they stay for a long time, whoever they are. Yeah, but we are made up of the community at large. Any city is going to be made up of a cast of characters and we certainly don’t want them to be the same character over and over.The diversity speaks loudly to the depth of the culture that you exist in. So we benefit.Stephanie Hansen:It’s also when we look at the diversity of the food culture that’s offered in the Twin Cities. I mean, you’re making Italian food.Tim Niver:Italian American. Yeah, yeah.Stephanie Hansen:Someone else is making Somali food, Ethiopian food, Vietnamese food. The irony is we have all these diverse cultures all coming together over this common tradition of breaking bread, of communally spending time in community together at our tables.Tim Niver:Yes.Stephanie Hansen:And it just saddens me that this is, this schism that is going to happen. It happens in restaurants first and then we’re going to be the last ones to be able to pick up the pieces when all these creeps leave. And all of this is, you know, the bad guys and the murderers and the rapists and whatever excuse you want to use for this complete brutality that’s happening to our community, then the restaurateurs will again pick it up. Food costs will probably increase. I would imagine none of these things that are happening are inexpensive. We have a somewhat broken food system nationally. You know, when you think about.Tim Niver:It’s a rough year of tariffs. It was a rough year. Understanding the more in price increases, insurance costs, health care costs, whatever you’re involved with, you know, I’m. My little business. You would be so shocked to know what we pay for insurance a year.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah, I just wrote my thousand dollar check for the month. Yeah, I’m a freelance person. No support.Tim Niver:A lot of money.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah, it is.Tim Niver:And those things have been ongoing. And then this obviously again is, like I said, a multiplying factor.Stephanie Hansen:So how do you keep. I mean, we’ve painted a Pretty gloomy picture. So how do you keep waking up every day and coming into your restaurant and finding joy? Because I think a couple of months in and two weeks of really acute persecution here, people are feeling really beleaguered.Tim Niver:Yeah, Weighted, I guess what I’d say. And I. And I haven’t necessarily found it totally in myself, but we talk about preserving joy and pieces of it. You shouldn’t think of joy being some all encompassing kind of a thing that just washes over you completely. You really have to parse it out and be deliberate with how you preserve your joy. Right now, that may be in a restaurant, I think I’m just starting to get my feet kind of how I feel personally. But the last few days kind of forced myself into tons of conversation. Even though that doesn’t always feel comfortable.I feel like staying at home. So I think that conversation, there’s. Maybe you’re commiserating or whatever, but there is a unity when you don’t hold up, when you don’t sacrifice joy because of it feels wrong. In this time, I do believe, you know, my message to anybody would be is, and I am intent on this is just where you see joy, like stop and engage with it and. Or force it and make sure that you’re trying anyway. Get out, go where you want to go. It doesn’t have to be Moochie’s. It doesn’t.That that’s not it, you know, but that. That’s part of it too, you know, hey, we’re giving a lot of money. Other, not just restaurants, people are giving a lot of money and resource to. To feeding people or staying safe or doing what they need to do right now. I mean, I understand dining out may not be your priority, but preserving a little bit of joy, if you could consider that. I think, I think there’s a little tiny pot of gold. Right.Stephanie Hansen:I thought I would start out this year talking about, like, food trends, because I love to talk about food trends. It’s like one of my favorite things to talk about. But, you know, that feels a little like we’re not doing that today. How are your colleagues feeling? Like you have a unique ability because you have people on your podcast. You are behind the scenes in the hospitality business. How are your colleagues doing?Tim Niver:Beleaguered. Beleaguered. Same boat. You know, the tides are out. It’s not in saying that is unattractive. You know, I get it. Like saying. Saying that things are hard is kind of an unattractive thing or unhospitable thing.But we’re all feeling it. It’s. It’s kind of hard. Anyway, I’m empathic, so, like, I’m just, like, sponging energy, and I. It’s. It’s really hard to, like, you know, continue to hear it.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah. I. I also think something that has come to me over the years of working in this business is we think about artists and musicians as these very creative beings. Right. And their art is their song or their poem or their story. And what I have learned in this business is that my fellow hospitalitarity people are also artists. It is the food that they are putting on the plate. It is the care with which they are putting there.It is the farmer who’s growing his heirloom seed to get that tomato to bring to you to make that perfect. Yeah. Salad. And artists as a class tend to be fairly sensitive people. They have a lot of empathy, a lot of emotional capacity, and it is just crushing sometimes. Similar happening. Yeah.Tim Niver:Yeah. You know, going back just a bit toward the last piece about Joy, a story. I got reminded of something after I said my bit last week. Earlier last week, like, Tuesday, before anything happened with Alex Preddy, I was at the door. A father and son walked in the door, and I’m at the host stand, and I see that they have a birthday designation. And I’m like, hey, you know, welcome in. I see one of you is having a birthday today. And they both kind of stopped in their tracks.And I said, hey, hey. I didn’t. You know, I don’t mean to get, you know, too personal. Whatever. I just see it listed here, and they’re like, well, my wife, his mother, she died 30 days ago, and today’s her birthday. Oh, that’s why we have to be here.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah, that’s.Tim Niver:That’s what we have to preserve, and that’s what people should. Should still celebrate.Stephanie Hansen:Sorry.Tim Niver:Thanks.Stephanie Hansen:No, it’s. It. It’s interesting because I’m one of those weirdos that gets together with friends in January and does tarot card readings.Tim Niver:Oh, I love it.Stephanie Hansen:And my, you know, you can pick, like, career adventure. And I picked joy as my, like, category, and I’ve been feeling kind of joyless. And you really hit something on the head when you talked about joy, which is something I’m working on, but it’s recent, so I’m not doing well at it yet. But it’s hard that, you know, I really. I was working on a project that wrapped up at the end of the year, and I pushed myself so hard. By the time I got done, I Just was an empty, depleted cup. I had nothing left. And I had this trip planned, and I was gonna go on this trip, and I was gonna rest and read, and I was gonna get my joy back and re.Energize. And on that trip, all this thing, these things were happening at home, and I haven’t been sleeping, and it’s been just constant cortisol rushing.Tim Niver:Yeah.Stephanie Hansen:And I didn’t get that joy in that way that I felt. And. And what my tarot cards said was exactly what you said, which is. It’s not a huge wave. It’s the moments within the wave. And you have to intentionally seek them out, look for them, create opportunities for them to happen.Tim Niver:Yeah.Stephanie Hansen:And for me, as a person who loves restaurants, it does happen a lot in restaurants.Tim Niver:Yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s not a manufactured feeling, you know, either. When you come in here, there’s a genuine desire to uphold whatever you’re there to be doing in whatever form. You know, whether it’s a funeral or, you know, an anniversary or a birth. You know, we want to be able. When you walk in the door, we want to be able to make sure we’re taken care of. Wherever you are, be compassionate to that moment.And that’s why memories are made in restaurants. It’s where people get together, you hear other voices, and you don’t have to listen to them. You know, it’s a din. It kind of makes you feel comfortable, like there’s an outside world that’s not affecting you. And there’s a lot of beauty in finding a place that gives you that sort of peace for a little while and visiting it.Stephanie Hansen:Oh, and I just. I think about Town Talk Diner, which was one of your original spots, and so many people still talk about that place and Nick Kosevich and you, and just this idea of what that place meant to so many people. And you’ve had a number of places like that because then you had Saint Dinette. And I’m trying to think of the. I’m trying. A total blank of your place.Tim Niver:Strip club up on the hill.Stephanie Hansen:Thank you.Tim Niver:Strip club. It’s all good. It’s a lot of years.Stephanie Hansen:It’s a lot of years, like, so many of these places that have meant so much to people as we move forward, because we’re really in it right now. We’re sort of stuck. What would you like to see moving forward? And how can people listening to this podcast be supportive of restaurants in general if you’re their spokesperson?Tim Niver:Yeah, if I was a spokesperson and. And I. And I kind of am sometimes, you know, I don’t try not to speak for the whole industry at large, but I would just say, you know, mind, mind what you are spending on and what you aren’t spending on and a business is doing the same. And I’m just looking for moments of unity between everybody that we can to kind of find some sort of momentum back into pushing towards joy. But for business folks right now, we understand we have a little bit of more time to consider that this might be happening. So to those business folks, I’d say consider your austerity. Now. What keeps you there for your community? What keeps you there for your employees? What keeps you there for the right reasons? But also, you know, folks, I know that they’re in general acting so generously and putting emotion on things, but I would say, you know, to preserve that joy, make a reservation somewhere and go out and eat, do whatever you can.Tim Niver:It doesn’t have to be a full blown meal. It could be a short visit. It could be go in and have a drink and hug the person you really like there. But I think you have to kind of get everybody working in the space that yes, there may be some time here for operators, but also for folks that are out there feeling a lot of different ways that there is a lot to be said for visiting and being out in your community and it’s not a feelful place all the time. And restaurants and businesses, we need you to continue to visit. It’s really that important. And that’s all there is. You know, it’s a business that’s in service of others and without them it’s hard to continue.Stephanie Hansen:And it feels so much better to, you know, after ruminating in my house for days. Then today I went to two coffee shops and I sat down with a friend who’s turns out starting a business. She’s an immigrant herself and scared and trying to figure out what the way forward is. Just spending time hearing her, hearing her concerns.Tim Niver:Yes.Stephanie Hansen:Introducing her to some new people that maybe she hadn’t thought about that might be resources. Yes, I just.Tim Niver:Expanding your community and, and yeah, expanding your community and bringing people in, bringing people in, you know, and we have.Stephanie Hansen:So many young people like, I mean, we’ve been around the block. We’re sage and oh no, the young.Tim Niver:The youngs are, are really strong here. You can see it in their dedication to their craft. You can see it in the dedication to their employees. You can see it in their dedication. In whatever way they were able to show solidarity during a day of Strike. It’s. It’s really insanely cool. Group of people were hoping for, rooting for desirous of their success.Tim Niver:I mean, that’s what we want.Stephanie Hansen:We do, because we had the, you know, the Phil Roberts and we had our. Everyone’s mentor, Tim McKee. But we have this new group of really committed and passionate folks, and it’s nice to be able to share wisdom with them, but also to create and be absorbed in their energy of how they want to move this industry forward. It’s pretty neat.Tim Niver:During these times. During these times. Well, you know, you. You said it. And I feel that this industry has been nothing but supportive, if not led the way in a lot of ways. I’m proud to be a part of it. I would like to do just what I do, but I understand that times are different and we all need to stand up and in the way that we need to stand up, but we do need to stand up and show ourselves for everyone. Yeah.Stephanie Hansen:If all you can muster is to go to a new business and have a cup of coffee, then do that. If you have the time or the capacity to be a protester, do that. Like there’s nothing. Everyone showing up in different ways. I just want people to hear that you show up. And even if you didn’t vote for who I voted for or you voted for someone and that wasn’t what you thought you got, it’s past that.Tim Niver:We’re just humanity, man.Stephanie Hansen:This is.Tim Niver:This is humanity. This is treating each other appropriately.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah. That’s it.Tim Niver:Like basic stuff. And then respecting our rights.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah. And agreed. Well, I think, Tim, I’m gonna wrap it up. I really. I love spending time with you today.Tim Niver:Thanks.Stephanie Hansen:Farther away from the restaurant now, so I don’t get in as often, but.Tim Niver:You know, we’re here. Just we’re here anyway, you know, we’re here.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah.Tim Niver:You feel us? You feel us?Stephanie Hansen:I do. And I really appreciate the leadership, also the respect that you have garnished in this community and the leadership that you provide for other restaurant tours and just.Tim Niver:Trying to earn it. I’ll keep trying to earn it.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah, you do. Every day. And just the ability to be able to hear your story and to help people understand what it feels like on the ground as a small business person who’s just trying to keep their people employed, their family fed, and are moving. Yeah, exactly. Thanks, Tim.Tim Niver:Yeah, my pleasure. Always.Stephanie Hansen:Okay, we’ll talk to you soon.Tim Niver:Thank you.Stephanie Hansen:Okay, bye. Bye. Bye.Stephanie Hansen's @StephaniesDish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe
