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The Crime CafeAuthor: Debbi Mack
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Interview with Matt Witten – S. 12, Ep. 6
Saturday, 5 September, 2026
Hi there! 🙂 On the Crime Cafe this week, we have my interview with Matt Witten, who’ll tell us all about his latest novel, 51%, which will (with any luck) be adapted, produced, and distributed to a television set screen near you. He is also optimistic in the face of the insanity we’ve all been subjected to about the future, which is somewhat reassuring. For a copy of the transcript, click here. Debbi (00:54): Hi everyone. My guest today has worked in a wide variety of media, from writing novels, writing for television, writing for the stage, and producing film. His latest novel, 51%, has the most intriguing concept, which I will let him tell you about. As of this moment, it’s still science fiction, I believe, I hope. It’s my pleasure to have with me the author of 51%, Matt Witten. Hey Matt, how are you doing? Matt (01:25): Great. Thank you, Debbi. It’s so good to be here. Debbi (01:27): Excellent. It’s great to have you on. Oh, you look so relaxed and happy out there on that porch. That looks nice. I should be on my porch right now except that it’s kind of sweltering out there a little bit from what I understand. Where are you located? Matt (01:42): I’m in the Adirondacks. I used to live in Los Angeles and our house was in the Palisades Fire last year, so we were very fortunate that we had this small second home in the Adirondacks. So this is where we live now. Debbi (01:55): Oh my gosh. Well, that’s nice. Very nice. Tell us about your latest book. I am so hooked on the concept already. Matt (02:04): Thank you very much. It’s called 51%. Here’s a picture of the cover. And it’s about a world 20 years from now. I used to say 30 years, but after one year of Trump, I’ve decided that it’s more like 20 years. And sometimes after I describe the concept to people, they say, “Oh, it sounds more like 10 years.” Anyway, it’s a world where the big six corporations, they own just about everything. They own schools, they own parks, they own the post office, just about everything’s been privatized and they even own people. So our hero, our two heroes are homicide detectives for the New York Police Department Incorporated, because in this world, even the police department is private. So for instance, if you want to investigate a murder, you have to raise money to investigate the murder because you got to raise money for your own salary and half goes to you and half goes to the corporation that owns the police department. (03:01): So you raise money from the victim’s spouse, their partner, their friends, their neighbors, their family. You might do a Kickstarter campaign in order to raise money for the murder. And so yeah, we have two heroes. One’s a homicide detective and the other is his partner and she’s a crime marketing expert. She’s the one that raises the money. Debbi (03:28): Wow. Interesting. It’s just so intriguing to listen to you describe this concept because it’s so similar to something I’m working on in certain ways. Matt (03:36): Okay. All right, good. Well, we should join forces. Debbi (03:39): I’m a little more optimistic in terms of when this happens in the future. Matt (03:44): You put it further away? Debbi (03:45): I’m being a little more hopeful, I guess. Matt (03:48): Yeah. Debbi (03:49): Let’s give us a minor bit of hope here. Matt (03:51): Well, I try to be hopeful in this in the sense that I describe them as the two main characters, but really the homicide detective’s ex-girlfriend is leading the resistance and the resistance is fighting the forces of evil. And she’s got this big action that she’s going to do on Saturday night at midnight, and hopefully it will jumpstart a revolution against the forces of evil. So there’s a lot of hope and love stories to give us hope also. I try to be hopeful in this in the sense that I describe them as the two main characters, but really the homicide detective’s ex-girlfriend is leading the resistance and the resistance is fighting the forces of evil. Debbi (04:22): Well, that’s great. That’s wonderful. And I understand that you will be writing an adaptation of this for somebody for television? Matt (04:29): Yes, I did. Yeah, I wrote an adaptation of it for TV, co-wrote with Charlie Greg, a showrunner for NBC. So that was very exciting. And we have some meetings scheduled the next month, so we’ll never count our chickens too quickly, but— Debbi (04:48): Oh, absolutely not. Matt (04:49): That’s exciting. Debbi (04:50): That is an amazing bit of news though. Matt (04:53): Yeah. Debbi (04:53): And it sounds like things are progressing as opposed to stalling. Matt (04:57): Yes. Well, yeah, I think so. Yes. Debbi (05:01): That’s fantastic. Congratulations. That’s a big win for you. Matt (05:05): Yeah, thank you. Debbi (05:07): I really want to see this thing. I want to read this book too. Let’s see. What really inspired you to write this book? She said somewhat like a dumb interviewer, what inspired you to write this book. Matt (05:23): It’s always a good question. Well, I would say two things. One is, ever since I first started following politics, I’ve just watched as the government got more gridlocked and government became smaller and big corporations became bigger and more powerful. And we’ve got guys like Elon Musk, some days they’re trillionaires and some days they’re only close. And I’ve watched the middle class getting squeezed, basically the middle class and the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer. So all my feelings about privatization and big corporations taking over and all of this came to fruition in this. And I’ll also say more specifically, the day that I got the inspiration for this, I went out to see a lecture by a TV executive named David Nevins, and Nevins was involved in the creation of some terrific shows like ER, The West Wing, Homeland. And he said something that night when I saw his lecture, he said that the best TV shows, and my guess is the best novels, but anyway, the best TV shows are the ones that speak to our deepest fears. [E]ver since I first started following politics, I’ve just watched as the government got more gridlocked and government became smaller and big corporations became bigger and more powerful. (06:34): So I walked home from the lecture that night. I was in Connecticut and I thought, “What are my deepest fears?” And two words came back to me, and those two words were student loans. Debbi (06:47): Oh, my gosh. Matt (06:48): And so I thought about student loans all night long, and by the morning I had this world, the name of the book is 51%, and it’s based on the idea that there are, if you want to go to college in this world or you want to go to high school, there’s no public colleges, there’s no public high schools, so everything is private. So if you want to go, you’re going to have to pay your own way, and lots of times you’re not going to have the money for it. So you get a loan to go to high school and college. And what it is, it’s an income share agreement where you agree the corporation is going to pay for your high school, pay for your college, but you’re going to have to pay them X percent of your money for your salary for the next 10 years. (07:29): So 20% of your income, let’s say for the next 10 years. And I should say, by the way, this is already happening. These income share agreements exist now. People on the right, like Marco Rubio are very supportive of it. People on the left or the middle, like Hillary Clinton are very supportive of it. So it’s already happening. So I thought, let’s say this catches steam and then it’s used for other things because the way the world is going, fewer and fewer people, at least in the last year or two, are having health insurance. Nobody gives a heck about Obamacare. Excuse me, the rich people don’t give a heck about Obamacare. And so what if you get a situation, you God forbid, get cancer, you’re going to have to give up X percent of your income for a certain number of years. You need help with childcare, which the United States government or state governments don’t really seem to have what Europe has in terms of childcare. (08:20): Okay, you want childcare, you have to give up another percent. So some people wind up over 50% owned, and when they wind up over 50% owned, 51%, then the corporations own them, could tell them what to do. If you want to be a poet or whatever, they’ll just laugh at you. Poets don’t make any money, so you got to work whatever. You got to work at a strip club, you got to work in a mine that can cause cancer. You have to do what we tell you to do. So it’s just basically. It’s basically looking at this world we have now where middle-class people are getting more and more squeezed and to the point where the corporations 20 years from now own us. (08:51): Anyways, that’s what inspired me. It’s basically looking at this world we have now where middle-class people are getting more and more squeezed and to the point where the corporations 20 years from now own us. And at the same time that right now we have these evil guys with. I mean, I would just say Trump, I’ll just say it, evil guys like Trump who are doing all these things to make our world worse, but there’s tremendous people who are fighting back against them. And it seems to me in every generation we’ve had a bad guy or the bad force, evil that we’ve had to fight. And so in my book, 20 years from now, there’s going to be evil again and good people of goodwill are going to come together and fight it. And that’s going to be the way the world works, I think, till the end of the world. Good is always going to. And it seems to me in every generation we’ve had a bad guy or the bad force, evil that we’ve had to fight. And so in my book, 20 years from now, there’s going to be evil again and good people of goodwill are going to come together and fight it. (09:41): I don’t know, it must be a line of the Superman or something, but good is always going to fight evil. That’s the way it is. Debbi (09:47): Thank you for articulating all of those thoughts that need to be expressed. I just think that was a very nicely expressed sentiment, all of it. Matt (10:01): Thank you. I appreciate it. Debbi (10:02): I wish more people thought that way and started thinking about it and started resisting. Matt (10:08): Thank you. I’ll tell you, the thing that makes me anxious when I talk like that is– Debbi (10:11): I get it. Matt (10:11): I’m imagining the reader, or not the reader, the listener to your podcast sitting at home saying, “Man, that book sounds pretty heavy. No way I’m touching that book.” So then I always have to follow it up with, “It’s a very sweet love story. There’s a lot of action.” People that read it, it’s like, oh, super fast-paced and all that, because whatever, I’m a TV writer. I don’t want people getting bored, so I got to keep it coming. Debbi (10:36): Think about all the spy movies you ever watched. That’s pretty serious stuff, but still it’s very watchable. Matt (10:43): Yeah, it’s interesting. If something doesn’t have something to it, sometimes it’s like, why am I reading this? It’s like there’s nothing to it. It’s too airy or something. But yeah, if something’s too heavy, obviously I’m going to put the book down after page two or three. So just trying to get that match and create something that I would enjoy reading, and I think a lot of people are enjoying reading. Debbi (11:08): You’re not writing a treatise, you’re writing a novel, a thriller novel at that. Matt (11:12): That’s right. Debbi (11:13): So it’s going to be thrilling. Let’s see. Let’s see. I was looking at an interview you did where you talked about “wars without consequence.” I thought that was a really interesting expression. Can you talk a little bit about what that means, wars without consequence? Matt (11:32): Well, could you say a little more? I don’t remember what it means. Debbi (11:37): It had something to do with bombing countries where we didn’t have any interests. Matt (11:41): Yeah. Well, I think probably what I was thinking. I wrote a movie called Drones, and so I was probably talking about that. In this movie, there’s guys, these Air Force privates actually, who were hitting buttons and killing people in Afghanistan. And there’s no danger to Americans anymore. We can go. In Iran, I mean, we’re killing our economy and we have wounded or killed 750 people. So maybe that’s not the best example, but there are a lot of wars that we have fought that nobody knows anything about. We’ve had drone attacks on Sudan, and even in Iran to a certain extent, we’ve managed to kill tens of thousands of people in Iran, and hardly any Americans have suffered as thoroughly as that, as being killed by it. And we have these wars where if we don’t die, we don’t feel it. If we don’t suffer, we don’t feel it. And it means we’re likely to have more wars. The bar will be lower to have these stupid wars. And we have these wars where if we don’t die, we don’t feel it. If we don’t suffer, we don’t feel it. And it means we’re likely to have more wars. The bar will be lower to have these stupid wars. (12:52): Venezuela as being another good example, in my opinion. In the one hand, it’s like, “Oh, great. We’ve got these great weapons. We’ve got these great drones. It’s terrific. We’ve got these great bomber planes. We’ll be able to do this and be so powerful.” And yet on the other hand, it just means we’re going to get more wars, we’re going to kill more people, we’re going to alienate more people, we’re going to create more wars. (13:18): At this point also, everybody’s got this ability. Ukraine’s got the ability. Iran, obviously, they have these weapons that are pretty relatively cheap and they’re able to hold us off. So it’s probably what I meant by war without consequence. It’s different from you’re going into battle like a Mel Gibson movie or something. You’re going into battle across the plain and some of you are going to die and some of the enemy are going to die, and it’s real, and you really got to deal with it, and it’s right in front of you. I don’t mean to romanticize, it caused great carnage, but it also is great disincentive to declaring war on somebody. Debbi (13:57): And it also isn’t going to be covered by the media quite the same way as say, oh, Vietnam. Matt (14:02): Right. I mean, Vietnam was. Yeah, because everybody was scared of getting drafted. That’s why the Vietnam War created that huge movement. And Iraq war was just as stupid as the Vietnam War, but nobody had to worry about getting drafted. So though there’s a lot of anti-war sentiment, it wasn’t like the streets were full of people protesting because if I don’t have to worry about getting drafted, I may be ticked off with the war, but I might not be so likely to go out and protest and do things. Debbi (14:32): Yeah. Let’s see. Sometimes I get the sense that we’re so busy trying to keep up with technology that we don’t have time to really think about what we’re doing. Would you agree with that? Matt (14:48): Are you thinking in terms of AI specifically? Debbi (14:50): I’m thinking in terms of all the technology. Things happen so fast. We get so many things in email from people. Here’s a great way to promote your book, blah, blah, blah, stuff like that. I mean, it’s like they come fast and thick, these offers sometimes, especially when you’re doing something like screenwriting. Matt (15:16): Yeah, yeah. Well, you definitely get a lot of spam for sure. I mean, as a writer, you get a million emails that they might claim to be from, whatever, from John Grisham and saying, “Oh, I read your book. It’s going to be terrific.” And it’s a hustle. I believe that. I know. It’s crazy. And then you get so many offers from book clubs, and I think about 99 out of a hundred are scams, and it gets to the point where I don’t even answer them, and I probably miss a book club here and there, but it’s just not worth it to me to try to figure out each one. Okay, is this a scam or is it real? Since it’s a scam 99 times, I’d rather just get rid of it. But yeah, I don’t know. I mean, technology, I don’t know. I don’t know. Debbi (16:03): Let’s think of AI then. I mean, AI itself is also a huge … to me, it can be hugely problematic for us. I’m not saying it doesn’t have benefits. I’m just saying it could be a huge problem if we’re not careful. Matt (16:19): Yeah, I agree. Well, everything. Yeah. I mean, Instagram, people are very concerned about it for kids and social media in general. So yeah, I don’t know. I think in general, technology has improved our lives in the last, whatever, thousands of years or hundreds of years. Debbi (16:37): Absolutely. Matt (16:38): I had a funny conversation with somebody recently, a friend of mine, Wendy, who’s in her 70s, and she was complaining about the world, and I said, “Well, do you think that the world has gotten worse in the last 30 years or 40 years?” And she said, “Well, yes.” I was kind of shocked, because the way I view it, it’s like people’s lifespans around the world are getting longer and infant mortality is less. The percentage of people who’s hungry is a little bit less than it used to be. And so to me, it’s like things are getting better. But I was trying to think, let’s say Wendy’s daily life or my daily life, is it better or worse than it was? I mean, I think all the medical advances probably means that I’m healthy. Actually, I know. Medical advances means I’m healthier than I would’ve been. That’s the main thing. But other ways, I don’t know. Is food better? Is drink better? Is movies better? Is entertainment better? I don’t know. I have to think about that some more because I don’t know how you feel, but I always took it on faith that things were getting better for us. Medical advances means I’m healthier than I would’ve been. That’s the main thing. But other ways, I don’t know. Is food better? Is drink better? … I don’t know. I have to think about that some more because I don’t know how you feel, but I always took it on faith that things were getting better for us. Debbi (17:43): Well, I don’t think things are getting worse. I think we’re being bombarded with information of various sorts. Some of it is edited, some of it isn’t. So sometimes you hear stuff and it sounds worse than it really is, and some of the headlines are worse than what they’re saying, than what they’re actually saying. I think we just are so bombarded with information that. And we’re also living in an extraordinary time when it comes to people who violate the Constitution around here. I mean, I’ll just say it, they are violating the Constitution left and right up at the federal level. And Congress, I don’t know, whatever happened to balance of powers? That’s what I’d love to know. Matt (18:32): Right. Yeah. In that sense, maybe things are getting a lot worse. Debbi (18:36): In that sense, that part is getting worse. But I don’t think the world generally is getting worse. I think we’re just better informed of the bad parts of it. Matt (18:46): Yeah, I think, I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know what’ll happen after we get rid of this president and things change a little bit. I really don’t know. Will this be a blip or will it be just things continuing to go down the tube? It’s hard for me. I mean, in that sense, it’s hard for me to tell. Debbi (19:01): Well, I never like to make predictions, so I don’t believe in them because you never know what’s going to happen, really. I’ve seen games where I was convinced my team was going to lose and they come back from behind, that sort of thing. Matt (19:17): Oh, were you a Knicks fan this year? Debbi (19:20): No, but I’ve been a Mets fan for many years. I remember when they were absolutely terrible. That’s how old I am. So have you ever listened to a podcast called American Afterlife? Matt (19:33): No, I never have. Debbi (19:34): It’s about what happens in the Northwest. The Northwest just basically crumbles into the sea, and there’s National Guard trying to keep control over everything, and there’s this one girl, a young girl who. She’s like a teenager, young adult, who is trying to find her mother, but she has a whole set of issues with her mom. And well, it’s interesting. It’s just a really interesting end of the world kind of thing that might interest you since you’re dealing with the technical part of it in your book, and they’re dealing with natural catastrophe. Matt (20:11): Oh, that sounds good. I’ll remember that. American Afterlife. I’m reading a great novel now called Murder at the End of the World, and it’s about— Debbi (20:18): Oh, I’ve heard of that. Matt (20:19): Oh, it’s amazing. In fact, I think we can make a great movie or TV show. I was curious to see if it had been optioned yet, but it’s about the big asteroid’s about to hit. It’s going to destroy the world in a few months. At the time the book starts, it’s two months from now, so what are you going to do? Your world is going to destroy it. And the hero of the book decides to go to driving school. She’s 23, I think, and she’s decided, “You know what? I’m this old. I should have gotten my license. I’m going to get my license.” And it turns out there’s one teacher still at the driving school, and so she is going to help her get her license. It’s a cool concept. They’re living their lives, and then it takes a twist, which is that they find a dead body in the trunk of the car that they’re going out to drive. (21:10): So then it’s like, “What do we do? We’re not going to let this murderer get away with it. I don’t care if there’s two months left. We’re not going to let her get away with it.” And then to make it really work, first of all, the author emphasizes how the victim suffered in the last part of her life because it was a vicious kind of murder, and then it turns out it was a serial killer. So it’s like, “Okay, we got to avenge the victim because they really suffered, and other people are going to suffer in the next two months.” So really, even if it’s two months left, you want to keep the people from suffering, let them die when the asteroid hits, it won’t be as bad. So it was just a beautiful book. It was a buddy story between these two characters, but it was also just beautiful. You’re going to live and no matter what happens, even if you’re about to die, it was great. Debbi (21:59): Yeah. Live until you die. Matt (22:01): That sounds like a good policy. Debbi (22:04): That’s what I always say. Just keep living. Matt (22:09): That works. Debbi (22:10): Live now. Don’t wait to live. Don’t say, “Well, I’ll wait 10 years and start living then.” Matt (22:17): You’re right about that. You’re right about that. Debbi (22:19): That’s kind of what I’m feeling these days. Well, it sounds like you have a lot of hope for society despite everything you write about in your books, and I like that. I just want to say that. Matt (22:32): Okay, thank you. Debbi (22:33): Is there anything else you’d like to add before we finish up? Matt (22:38): No, I’ve enjoyed being on here. It’s a pleasure. So I know you’re working on a movie short, so good luck with that. Debbi (22:47): Thank you. Thank you very much. I’m excited, very excited. So I’m sure it will be fun. And I’m also doing post-production on my first movie, so that’s coming together finally. Matt (23:03): Wow. Debbi (23:04): Slowly. Matt (23:04): Well, that’s exciting. Debbi (23:05): Things happen with me very slowly. Matt (23:07): That’s very exciting. Debbi (23:09): Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. And I am happy to have you on today and hope that you’ll hang around for the bonus episode that I’ll do after this, like a 10 minutes bonus. Matt (23:24): Sure. Debbi (23:25): Excellent. Great. So thanks so much for spending time with us today, Matt. I really appreciate it. It was very interesting hearing you talk and talking to you. Your book sounds fantastic, and good luck with the show. Matt (23:40): Thank you. Thank you very much. Debbi (23:42): To all my listeners and supporters, I would like to thank you very, very much for listening or watching on YouTube. If you’d like to follow us on Patreon, you’ll see that the Crime Cafe is now kind of rebranded into the Crime Cafe and multimedia experience. That’s kind of the best way I can put it because I’m kind of into podcasting, novel writing, screenwriting, and now filmmaking. So what does that all mean? I don’t know. We’ll see. I would welcome your thoughts on the show. Do you enjoy listening to it? Would you enjoy listening to a scripted podcast, for instance? Are there any other features that you would like to see as part of my newsletter? Let me know. Just shoot me an email at debbi@debbimack.com. On that note, thanks again for your attention, your interest, and we’ll be back in two weeks with more. (24:43): So in the meantime, take care and happy reading. Be seeing you. We’re still on Patreon. 🙂
