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The Crime CafeAuthor: Debbi Mack
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Interview with Liz Lazarus – S. 11, Ep. 20
Saturday, 4 April, 2026
My guest this week on the Crime Cafe podcast is Liz Lazarus. Listen in on her remarkable story. I’m ready to sign-up for karate class now. You can download a copy of the transcript here. Debbi (00:54): Hi everyone. My guest today has an engineering degree and a very interesting background in general. Among other things, she lived in Paris for three years and speaks fluent French. She has a pilot’s license and has produced a music CD. She’s also the author of several legal thrillers, including her latest, Dawn Before Darkness, which is available on Kobo, as well as in print or will be, I guess, in May. Liz (01:28): Will be. May 26th. May 26th. Yeah. Debbi (01:31): May 26th. There, you heard it now. You heard it there. It’s my pleasure to introduce my guest, Liz Lazarus. I’m trying not to say Liz Lemon. Liz (01:42): It’s a tongue twister. Liz Lazarus. Yeah. Debbi (01:44): Liz Lazarus. It’s a lovely name. I love it. I love that name. That’s cool. What made you choose to write Thrillers? Liz (01:54): Well, I would tell you, as you said, I’m an engineer. I’m probably the most reluctant author you’ll meet. I did not intend to be an author, and that may be the story for lots of people. But my first book, Free of Malice, was based on a real story, something that happened to me in college. And the novel actually was just me writing about what happened to start with. And then it turned into a novel. And I was going to be one and done after Free of Malice, and people that were reading it said, “Can’t wait for the next one.” And so I thought, okay. And it took me a while to agree to write the second one. And then once that was done, that was Plea for Justice, then came Shades of Silence and now Dawn Before Darkness. So now I feel like it’s a bad addiction. Debbi (02:36): Wow. And each one of these is a standalone novel, not a series. Liz (02:40): They are standalone. I like to give my characters closure and move on to new people. Debbi (02:45): That’s cool. Yeah, I can appreciate that. Your first novel was inspired by a real event, correct? Liz (02:53): Correct. Debbi (02:53): What was it like to write in a fictional form about a thing that really happened? Liz (03:00): It was therapy. So what happened in brief, I was in college at Georgia Tech. I was living off campus in this area called Home Park, which is a bunch of old houses, college students, a fair amount of riff raff. It wasn’t the safest area. And it was my senior year. I was going to sleep that night. I was living with two other girls in a house. And at four in the morning, I wake up to the sound of my bedroom door crashing open. Debbi (03:26): Oh my God. Liz (03:26): And I remember distinctly thinking, “Is this real?” And my next thought was, “This is real. You’ve got to deal with it. ” And you don’t know what you’re made of. Thank goodness I had fight in me, so I started fighting back. And eventually, at one point I write about this in the book, he says, “If you shut up, I’ll leave.” And I thought, “I’m not shutting up. I’m screaming louder.” And eventually he gave up and I left. So I didn’t have any self-protection at the time. I had a can of mace. I ran to the door, watched him run away into the darkness. And so for me, the writing about it, writing about the PTSD that I had. I didn’t even know what that word was, but I started writing about how I felt, what happened, how I would check every nook and cranny in the house. (04:09): And I had said to my brother-in-law afterward, “If I’d had a gun, I would’ve shot him.” And he said, “Well, that may not have been self-defense. By the time you could have shot him, he was retreating off your property. You would’ve shot him in the back.” And that got me really curious about where’s that line between self-defense and vigilantism. And then my mother asked a question, which I won’t tell you because it gives away the ending, but she asked just the most out of the blue question. And I thought, wow, that would make a killer ending to a book. And that was it. And it took me years later. For anyone who’s thinking of writing a book, it took me years later. I did all those other things on my bucket list and the book just wouldn’t leave me alone, so I wrote it. Debbi (04:51): Yeah. It’s kind of an itch that you got to scratch. Liz (04:57): It wasn’t going away. And I had the plot in my mind, and it had been brewing in my mind for a while. And I’m super lucky. I had a lawyer who helped me with the legal part. I had a therapist who helped me with the EMDR therapy, which is in the book, therapy I never did. And so the whole thing was just a great project. Debbi (05:16): Interesting. At this time, are you working at a regular job or do you have a business? I understand you were head of operations for a healthcare startup at some point. Liz (05:31): I’ve done two startups. The last one, and now I’m currently on one, but we’re in engineering development, so they don’t need me a lot because I do more of the operations. So I’ve got a fair amount of free time at the moment. But my background was 20 years at GE Healthcare and 10 years consulting. And I do some consulting on my own, but when I’m writing a book or launching a book, I don’t do much consulting. Debbi (05:53): Yeah. Yeah. You want to focus on that book. Yeah. Liz (05:55): This is a job in of itself. Debbi (05:57): It sure is. It sure is. Liz (06:01): Yeah. Debbi (06:02): I think a lot of people don’t really realize that when they get into this, how much of a job it is. Do you have a regular writing schedule? Liz (06:12): I don’t. I do an outline. I am a plotter. I outline an Excel with color coding. Debbi (06:18): Why am I not surprised? Liz (06:19): Fair. Debbi (06:21): You’re an engineer. You have a scientific mind, and I get it. Liz (06:26): So because I do that, I don’t have to write in order. So I write when something gives me content. If I’ve met someone or a story shows up or I’ve interviewed someone, I write when I have content. Debbi (06:36): Cool. I like that approach. How much research do you usually do before or while you’re writing the novel? Liz (06:46): It depends. The first one and this fourth one are based on real events. And so I didn’t have to do as much as I thought because I knew a lot of it. Now, the legal part, I had to do research and I always rely on my lawyer friends to help me. The third one, I relied a lot on my friend who’s a detective, a retired detective. And this current one, it was a balance. So the current one, Dawn Before Darkness, is a stalker story and a guardianship abuse story. So the stalker part, I interviewed 10 women who had stalkers and combined their stories to this uber-villain. And then the guardianship story is actually my real story that I was fighting for guardianship for my mother. And so most of that, I didn’t need to do research. I lived it. And again, was therapy to write about it. Debbi (07:33): Yes. How did you find the 10 women that you interviewed? Liz (07:41): Great question. From my fan base. So I had just posted … Well, the first person, Dawn, Dawn Hillier was the inspiration behind me writing the stalker story. She had a stalker. We had become friends and she told me about her story. And so that was in my mind, I was always going to write the stalker story. And then I posted on Facebook just out to my readers and said, “If anybody’s had a stalker and is willing to be interviewed, I’d love to talk to you. “ Debbi (08:08): Wow. Liz (08:09): And sadly, I had too many volunteers. That’s a sad state of affairs. So I picked 10 women, 10 stories. And then at that same time, my guardianship case was continuing to play out. And the real light bulb for me was, how do I combine those two things? How do I combine guardianship fighting for your mom and then a stalker? And when I was able to do that, I think this is my best one yet. Debbi (08:34): Wow. That’s one of the most useful parts about Facebook, finding other people. And yet somehow I don’t really like Facebook. I wish I could like it more. You know what I’m saying? It’s so hard for me to get into it somehow. Liz (08:55): It’s fun to keep up with people. I’m not 100% convinced it sells books, but to me, people tend to want the books when they’ve heard my talk or they’ve had a referral. So I do it some, but I don’t overpost. I feel like that might annoy people. So I try to do it with moderation. Debbi (09:16): Moderation. Absolutely. That’s a great suggestion. What authors have most inspired you as a writer? Liz (09:25): Different ones. Well, the very first one actually was my grandfather. He wrote a very different genre. He wrote a children’s book called Follow My Leader. His name’s James Garfield. And he wrote about a little boy who was blinded by a firecracker. That book came out in the 50s and it’s still in print today. So I guess I had the writing bug in me somewhere. And then as far as what I read, I read a lot of thrillers. And I tend to be, I’m on a kick right now with all the British thriller writers. So Clare MackIntosh, B.A. Paris, that crew. And a lot of it’s because I do audiobooks and I love listening to the British accent. But Michael Robotham, K.J. Howe, there’s so many. Debbi (10:11): Yeah. Michael Robotham. I’m familiar with him. Liz (10:14): He’s great. Debbi (10:16): Nice guy, too. Liz (10:17): Oh, you’ve met him. That’s great. Debbi (10:19): We were on a panel once ages ago. Liz (10:20): That’s a treat. Yeah. Debbi (10:22): Yeah, It was. It was a real treat. Liz (10:24): What I like about him is his twists, and I always have a twist. Every one of my books has a twist. His twists are earned. I love that about how he writes. Debbi (10:35): Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Let’s see. How did you start writing fiction? Did you take courses or read books before you started your own novel or did you just launch in? Liz (10:51): I just did it. Debbi (10:52): Wow. Liz (10:53): I don’t know if that’s a mistake. I think some of the best singers are just naturally gifted and don’t even have to take a course. I’m going to believe that’s my path. I’m sure if I took more courses or any courses, I would be better, but I read. I have good, good editors and I write. Debbi (11:16): And you know what you like? Liz (11:19): True. Debbi (11:19): And that’s what you want to see. You want to write the book that you want to see out there? Liz (11:24): I do. I write what I know and I like strong female characters. I like women who are sympathetic for some reason. Always have a good twist. When I know the twist, that’s when I know I’ve got my story. Debbi (11:36): Yeah. Yeah. Let’s see. What advice would you give to anyone who’s interested in having a writing career? Liz (11:45): Don’t do it, right? Debbi (11:47): Run screaming. Liz (11:49): Be ready. You named the things I’ve done. Pilot’s license, got my MBA, speak French. This is the hardest thing I’ve ever done, ever. Wow. So just be ready. Go in with not crazy expectations. When people ask me, when they’re thinking of writing a book, the first thing I ask them is, what’s your goal? Are you thinking you’re going to make money? Are you going to be famous? Do you want a movie deal? Have realistic expectations. And if it’s like me and it was just a calling that would not let go, then do it. Because if it’s not a calling that’s not going to let go, then do it. But go in with low expectations, get a mentor early. I did not do that. I should have. And the publishing businesses I have found doesn’t follow the business norms that I’m used to. 20 years at General Electric. And so be prepared for some of that. And that’s where a good mentor would help. Debbi (12:45): Yeah. Yeah. Understand something about publishing. That helps a lot. Liz (12:50): It does. Debbi (12:51): People really don’t know Liz (12:52): Well, you were indie before it was popular, which is very brave. Brave or foolish, I don’t know. But having to carve your way in a business that’s not friendly towards anything other than traditional is not easy. Debbi (13:09): Well, it’s interesting. It seemed like it was a lot easier … how long ago was it? 13 years, 14, 15 years ago than it is today. Now, today it seems super-hard to get any kind of notice. Liz (13:28): There’s so many books. There’s so many books out there. Debbi (13:30): There’s so many books, there’s so many authors, there’s so many voices, and people are trying so many different things. And I’m not sure that we’re all really doing the right thing just yet. And I keep thinking there’s something missing here that we should be doing. Maybe it’s … I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t want to get all political here, but maybe we need a union. Maybe we need a collaboration, a huge get together of some sort where we all say, “What’s going on and what are we doing and what’s working and what isn’t?” These are serious questions, especially given what’s going on with AI and people hear the letters AI and they just start freaking out. Don’t freak out. Don’t freak out. Human voices will always be valuable. That’s the way I feel. Liz (14:26): I think so. I mean, where I’ve used AI, it’s been a compliment, but it’s not been the centerpiece. And that’s where I have found it useful. And I’m just scratching the surface. I probably should take some courses to even understand it better. Debbi (14:41): Well, I use it for making transcripts and that’s about it. And even then, I can’t trust the transcript necessarily because sometimes they’ll hear something wrong and they will get it completely wrong. And I’m like, oh, that is so wrong. I got to change that. So I have to review all the transcripts and takes time, takes effort, takes money, all that stuff. Anyway, not to bang on about that. Liz (15:10): I will tell you, it’s great for vacation planning. I’ve used AI for that. You say, “Hey, ChatGPT, we’re going to be in this place or the city for this many days. Give me the best routing.” And it does a pretty decent job. Debbi (15:23): That’s pretty cool. Well, I’ve never used it for that. Liz (15:25): Try it. It actually is pretty good. Debbi (15:29): Interesting. Beats Expedia, I suppose. I don’t know. Is there anything else that you would like to talk about that we haven’t covered? I think we’ve covered quite a bit. Liz (15:41): Yeah. I mean, obviously where to get the books, go to my website, that type of thing. Absolutely. We could talk more about the plot of this recent one if you’d like. Debbi (15:52): Okay. Go right ahead. Tell us a little more about the recent one, which is really a good book. Liz (15:57): Thank you. Yeah, so it’ll be out in May. The ebook is up for pre-order, but the paperback and the audio will be out in May. But it’s about a woman named Dawn after my friend, Dawn, who meets a young man and she thinks he’s her prince charming and they begin to date. And as they’ve dated a couple weeks, she catches him in lies. And when she catches him in a lie that can’t be denied, she breaks off the relationship. And instead of accepting the breakup, he begins to stalk and harass her so much so that she has to get a restraining order. And beyond that, he goes after her mother. So he goes after guardianship and conservatorship of her mother. And people have said to me, “Well, you can’t do that. You’re not a relative.” And the crazy thing is anybody can sue for guardianship and conservatorship. (16:44): All he has to do is prove she’s unfit. It doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll win, but it means he makes her lose. And he puts her through a horrible court battle. And I’ll kind of leave it at that because I don’t want to give away spoilers, but it is based inspired by my experience of battling for years to get my mother away from a third party guardian. And finally was able to do it, but it took me years. It took me thousands of dollars. And so when people say it might be implausible, the legal story in this latest book, I will tell you, Dawn had it easier than I did. Debbi (17:19): Oh my gosh. Wow. That’s amazing. Liz (17:24): That’s heavy. It’s heavy. This book is dark. When you talk about Dawn before Darkness, it is dark. It is heavy. Debbi (17:29): Oh my goodness. Liz (17:31): There was one part where my husband said, “Don’t you want to give her a break?” Like he said, “This is your best one yet, but you don’t give her a break.” And I’m like, “I didn’t get one.” So there are some vet stories. She’s a vet. I had a lovely friend, Becky Smith. That’s the Smith of Dawn Smith, the character, who’s a vet tech, and she shared so many great vet stories with me. Debbi (17:53): Oh my God. Liz (17:54): And so there is some levity because she’s a vet and you get to go into that world, which that was researched. And so there is a fun part. And every vet story in the book actually has a reason for being in there. It plays full circle. Debbi (18:07): Oh, wow. That’s great. I can’t wait to continue reading this. I’m telling you, you’re just selling it to me all the way. Believe me. Liz (18:17): Oh, lovely. Thank you. And you’ll have to call me when you’re done. I want to see what parts you caught, what parts surprised you. Debbi (18:25): All right. Well, I will do that. I will definitely be in touch. Wow, this is fantastic. I just want to thank you so much, Liz, for spending time with us today and all of this. Liz (18:38): Oh, my pleasure. And you’re great to do this. I have not taken on the brave job of doing podcasts and interviewing other people. So thank you for giving the rest of us a voice. We really appreciate it. Debbi (18:50): I want to give you people, all of you a voice. I mean, seriously, there is wonderful, wonderful stuff to be read out there and you should hear about it. And you can hear about it here because I’ll have the people on to tell you about it. So to all of you who are listening or watching, thank you very much. I’m so grateful to you. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave a review. As many stars as you can manage with a straight face. And for ad-free episodes, book reviews, excerpts of my work and more, check me out on Patreon. We’re also on Substack for some reason or other. On that note, our next guest will be Marschall Runge. Until then, take care and happy reading. Be seeing you. Check us out on Patreon!
