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The Crime CafeAuthor: Debbi Mack
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Interview with Graciela Kenig – S. 11, Ep. 19
Saturday, 14 March, 2026
My guest this week on the Crime Cafe podcast is Graciela Kenig, a crime writer who can tell you a tale in two languages. But she’s giving away her debut novel, The Plans They Made, in English. I forgot to ask about translations! Check out the transcript of our interview here. Debbi (00:54): Hi everyone. My guest today has been a feature journalist, online forum contributor, and careers columnist. Her work has appeared in the Chicago Tribune, the Sun-Times, and other national publications. Her debut novel, The Plans They Made, won the 2022 Page Turner Award for best genre writing. So it is my pleasure to introduce you to my guest, Graciela Kenig. Am I saying that correctly, Kenig? Graciela (01:31): Yes, you are. Yes. And thank you for having me. It’s amazing. You’re saying both things correctly and that’s cool. Debbi (01:40): Ah, well, you see, I’m married to an Italiano man. His last name, if you pronounced it correctly, would sound very different from the way people actually pronounce it, when they can pronounce it. It’s funny. I have no problem with vowels, folks. I did take Spanish, so that helped in junior high and high school and all that stuff. So how are you doing anyway? Graciela (02:07): I’m doing fine. Thank you. I’m just looking forward to spring in Chicago. Debbi (02:12): We’ve had a rough one. Graciela (02:12): Yeah. Debbi (02:14): All right. You’ve had a very interesting career from writing features to having your own column. How did you go about developing this particular career path? Graciela (02:26): Some of it was very organic. I wanted to be a writer from the get- go when I was little, and of course the language, because I was born in Argentina and I wrote in Spanish. And so I moved to the United States with my family and I had studied English, but you don’t use it every day until you have to. And so yeah, it kind of started like that, that I wanted to be a writer. And for the longest time, even though I had been encouraged about how I could write well, I kept thinking that Spanish was the language I should write in because that’s what I was very comfortable with. So I entered the newspaper writing career because the Chicago Sun-Times had started a section in Spanish. So I started writing articles for them, no journalist training. It’s just like, okay, let’s see what happens here. (03:23): And so I learned quickly and soon enough they asked me if I would come in part-time to help the editor because he was not a native-born Spanish speaker, if I could just do a final sweep of his columns. He’d already done his editing, so I had to go back and make sure that everything was okay. And so that column, I think it lasted for sometimes a couple years. And then you’re inside this newspaper. And so somebody says, “Do you write in English too?” I do. And I was always drawn to being somebody who could give you advice. So some of the things that I liked for a while, eventually I freelanced for the Chicago Tribune and there I got in because I was writing for a know-how section. So I could write about how do you put together a ceiling fan? And so those kinds of things like that. (04:20): And I wrote for a bunch of local papers and eventually I kind of started doing other things, getting interested in helping people with their career. And then The Tribune started a Spanish language newspaper, and that one lasted 10 years. And I wrote the careers column. So it was this interesting thing that kind of opened doors for me as to how I can help people in a very more specific way. And I felt that I wanted to help the Latino community because oftentimes we tended to be real roaded into one kind of job or another kind of job. And at least I said, “If you’re bilingual, you can do that and the other thing.” And the more I did that, the more I realized it wasn’t just being able to speak another language, it was also about the cultural issues. So it was very organic and went like that, but I always, always wanted to write fiction. Debbi (05:18): Oh, that is so cool. I love what you’re saying. That is just fantastic. What inspired you to write your novel? What inspired the idea for it? Graciela (05:32): I knew somebody who had put off, reconnect them with their best friend back in the time when you didn’t have easily, you couldn’t send faxes. I mean, that kind of stuff, you just sent—snail mail was the only way to communicate or calling, and that was expensive. And so it was put off. And when they were about to get together, this other friend had died. And so that was the seed of this. But, in big part, I used that for, I was taking a writing class and that was a prompt. And it was something like I wrote one scene and then the next assignment was write it from the other person’s point of view, which is so me because I think I like writing and I think a lot of us in the arts tend to … You have an artist sensitivity when you can see things from different perspectives, when you can be an outsider. (06:33): And within your thing, it’s very hard to know your own culture, your own … Everybody does the same thing in your little life. Debbi (06:42): Correct. Yeah. Graciela (06:44): You know what I mean, in your circle of friends and acquaintances. And so I’ve always felt somehow, especially after we moved to the United States as an outsider. So you observe things in very different ways. You notice things other people don’t. And that’s really … And that’s what I liked about the idea too, is I developed the protagonist, Kate, being a journalist. I had all that experience myself, but she was an outsider. She’s visiting London in a country she doesn’t really know, which also was helpful to me because that way I could look at London, not as the expert that I’m not. It was just like, okay, how did she see it as having been a journalist and a writer when she’s there trying to find who killed her friend? I mean, the inspiration, the person that I knew did not … was not killed. She was in an accident. Debbi (07:44): Right. Graciela (07:45): You take your, what do they call your literary? Debbi (07:49): Exactly. Graciela (07:50): Yeah. Debbi (07:51): It’s interesting how things like a prompt and then twisting it around, changing the perspective can really make you think about it and the possibilities. Graciela (08:03): Yeah. Debbi (08:04): Good, good, good approach there. Great stuff. What was it that made you choose the thriller genre? Graciela (08:12): In a sense, it was organic as well. I was taking … A few years ago during the pandemic, I became involved with this group, StoryGrid, which most people think of StoryGrid as an editing tool, but they did start something where we had these groups and Sean Coyne, who’s the founder who wrote the book, basically would have these workshops. And so I started to realize that what I was thinking about really was very much in line with a thriller. It wasn’t what I intended to do. And although I had never been a real avid reader of thrillers, I had watched a lot of thrillers and movies and that kind of thing in both worlds in Argentina and Spanish and here, because my dad loved that stuff. He loved detectives. He loved police procedurals and all those kinds of things. And I just watched them because he liked them and I liked them too. Debbi (09:12): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We watched a lot of those in our house too. And I remember distinctly when I was growing up, there was a show called Honey West about a female private eye, and it lasted for one season. I was so angry when they took it off. I said, I don’t believe they took that show off. The one show where I get to see a woman do something really cool. Graciela (09:40): It’s pretty rare back. Debbi (09:42): Exactly. Early ’60s, that was almost like a bizarre event, but it was really just a great show. And then The Avengers came along and filled that hole for me a little bit. Emma Peel was my heroine. Graciela (10:02): Yeah. I liked the visual part about the movies showing action. It’s always a lot harder to describe action in words, but— Debbi (10:11): It is, yeah. Graciela (10:12): Punching. And I mean, I do thrillers, but I don’t like horror. It can be part of a thriller thing. And I also, I guess because of my upbringing, thrillers usually have to be political in nature, have some political thing. Debbi (10:28): I get it. Graciela (10:29): Yeah. Debbi (10:30): I totally get it. Graciela (10:31): There were like 15 political parties in Argentina, and even [inaudible] knew about them. It’s crazy. So yeah. Yeah. Debbi (10:39): If we could only come up with a third one here. Graciela (10:43): Yes, it would be helpful, wouldn’t it? Yes. Yes. Debbi (10:46): A little balance somewhere along the line. Let’s see. You described yourself in another interview as a slow writer, primarily I think due to a lot of research that you do? How much research do you do before you start writing or while you start writing or while you are writing? Graciela (11:06): I like doing research. It can be a rabbit hole. If I don’t stop myself. But I tend to just … With this one, and I’m writing a second novel now, with The Plans because I was still working full-time, it took me a long time to write it. And there I went to London to see that. And when I was in there, I came up with other ideas. I thought, oh, what happened that year in London? And there’s a chapter when it all has to do with President George W. Bush who was visiting there. So I thought he was here. So I like the idea of having … It’s not a historical novel, but I like having historical places, placeholders, so to speak. And that is how the story devolved in a sense. And I like that a lot because I do research a little before, but I also do a lot when I discover that I’m missing something and I don’t know. Debbi (12:14): Precisely. Yeah. Graciela (12:15): And, nowadays with the event of AI, I mean, it would’ve taken you months to get some of the things it can get for you and you’re just needing something for one sentence and okay. Debbi (12:30): As long as you double check and make sure it’s not hallucinating. As a journalist, you know that. Graciela (12:37): Yeah. Well, they usually give you sources. Debbi (12:41): Usually, yeah. Yeah. Graciela (12:42): I mean, but if they don’t, I check them. But I mean, it’s a good opportunity because I don’t know everything that I’m inventing. Debbi (12:50): Absolutely. Graciela (12:52): If you’re sending somebody to federal prison, for example, I learned, no, there’s no parole in federal prison since this act of 1984, and I didn’t know that until I just saw it in this research I did. So I enjoy doing that. Even if a lot of it doesn’t end up directly on the novel, at least it’s something that informs it. Debbi (13:17): Yes. And what are you working on now? Graciela (13:22): I am working on, I don’t know what you call it, a second or third draft of this one. Debbi (13:28): Is it a sequel or a standalone? Graciela (13:30): No, it’s not a sequel. Because I spent so much time with The Plans, I just wanted a break from that story. And this was inspired by something that was going to be a short story, but it’s not. It’s a novel. Debbi (13:43): It’s funny how these things happen. Graciela (13:47): So the working title of this is called Stuck in Paradise. And my protagonist is also a woman who’s out of her element, and Paradise is a Caribbean Island, and she goes here to help someone that basically plugs her from someone she knew in the past. So right now I’m deep into this thing of finalizing this draft, whatever number it is, I stop copying. Debbi (14:17): After a while, you lose count. Graciela (14:19): Yes, yes. But at this point, there are times when you go and you slog through it like, “What am I doing here?” I’m not sure. But at this point I ended up really pinpointing what I needed to do. So I’m in this really exciting period of like, oh, okay, I keep going. Yeah. So I hope you— Debbi (14:40): I love that feeling. Yeah. Graciela (14:42): Yeah. Debbi (14:43): You got to keep that feeling going. Graciela (14:45): It’s hard. It’s really hard because it doesn’t always come out. Debbi (14:48): It is. Yeah, it is sometimes. What kind of writing schedule do you keep? Graciela (14:57): I’m sorry? Debbi (14:58): Do you keep a writing schedule? Do you have a— Graciela (15:01): Yes, I do pretty much. And that’s part that started with the StoryGrid groups and I am on Central Time, so we write online. It’s kind of an accountability group, and so we all write at the same time and only share resources and questions at the end of the session. So we definitely do 10 to 12 every morning for me, Central Time. And I’m on a roll, I’ve been writing a lot longer these days, but I need breaks too. So often if I am going to do a minimum, it’s 10 to 12. I’m thinking about this story all the time, but that’s my writing schedule. Yes. Debbi (15:45): I’ve noticed that you’ve traveled quite a bit. In addition to coming to the United States, do you prefer to go to a place before you write about it or do you just take it as it comes kind of like if you have to write a place that you’ve never been to, you just research it? Graciela (16:07): I prefer to be there somewhat. I had been to London before I actually went and they had really good memories of it, but it wasn’t a research trip. So when I decided to set it there, I decided I had to go. And so it wasn’t a touristy thing. I just went there, which happened to be the first time ever I traveled by myself outside of the country. And I stayed at an apartment hotel where I could cook my own meals and it was wintery, so I had to be back by 4:30 or 5:00 so I could write, flesh out my notes. So I do like to go to the places, but I also like to travel. I see, again, talking about gaining outside perspective, oh yeah, this is things here and this is what they consider when they do this and that. And so yeah, right now I almost can’t go anywhere without at least thinking about those potential angles. Debbi (17:08): Yeah, definitely for sure. Yeah, I love travel. I tend to think of thrillers as stories that test the limits of possibility because you’re always putting these people in situations that could happen that are unlikely, but could happen and have devastating potential results. What are your thoughts on that? Graciela (17:33): Well, clearly when you’re writing a thriller, you have to make sure that you’re raising antes. There’s got to be a value change even in a scene. Debbi (17:43): Exactly. Graciela (17:44): Start out feeling this and a thriller, it goes from safety to danger or the other way around. But I also, I think that I see that as a very important thing to do because when we read about someone who’s in danger or how they came up with something, we learned something as readers. And so sometimes you’ll be like in a movie, you’d be covering your eyes if you’re scared. But in books, sometimes you have to take a moment and rest because—whew!—that was strong. But I also think that the more extreme situation the character is in, the more you understand that character and what is she or he made of. Debbi (18:29): Exactly. The ability to relate with that character and to feel what they’re feeling in that moment. Yeah. It’s very important for screenwriting, I’ll tell you that. Graciela (18:41): I know. I’m not a screenwriter, but I know that the character arc is important. They wouldn’t do certain things if they were someone different. Debbi (18:50): Exactly. Yeah. What authors have most influenced you and inspired you to write? Graciela (19:00): My tastes in writing are very eclectic in part because I also grew up in Argentina where I read back in the time of magical realism. So I don’t anymore because I got tired of it, but I loved it at the time and I loved all those authors. Gabriel Garcia Márquez who won the Peace Nobel, Borges, Cortázar. All of these people were really inspirational to me. But here in the United States in my early years, I really loved Anne Tyler and it was just, she’s not a thriller writer, but she’s so knowledgeable about people, the dynamic in families, which is always, was attracted to that for some reason. Her characters did quirky things. Debbi (19:51): Yes, they did. I know. I’m a big Anne Tyler fan actually. Yeah. Graciela (19:56): I’ve always loved her. And so for the longest time, if you ask me what’s my favorite book, it was Dinner at the Homesick Restaurant. I thought- Debbi (20:03): Oh my God, yes. Oh my God, yes. Yes. Yeah, that one really got me. Graciela (20:08): Yeah. But I do read a lot of thrillers. Now a lot of authors was one of my … I mean, Dennis Lehane, Stacey Abrams. I became a real fan of her. Somebody pointed her out to me and she writes a lot about political things like I like to write. Debbi (20:27): Cool. Graciela (20:29): Michael Connolly. Oh my gosh, he’s so good. Harlan Cobin. I have to write them down because I know I like a lot of them, but these are people who are very inspirational to me now. But foundationally, I think a lot of these people who wrote about their characters, Anne Tyler is certainly one of them. Debbi (20:48): Yeah, for sure. Yeah, me too. What advice would you give to anyone who’s interested in a writing career? Graciela (20:57): I think that, and it took me a long time to figure this out because people would always say in English and Spanish, how I could string works together really well. So my writing was poetic, blah, blah, blah, whatever it was, but you still have to understand story structure. And until I started taking some serious courses, I really didn’t. And I mean, there’s a lot out there nowadays, a lot of different people who are fantastic at teaching, and you could be spending money every day on something like that. You can have coaches. I think first of all, it’s a very lonely profession and you do need feedback. You don’t understand. And I mean, and again, I mentioned AI and AI will point out some very important things, but you still need humans to look at. It’ll say one thing, and then I have an editing group besides my accountability group, and we meet every week and we share a short part of what we’re writing. And the good thing is that they get to know your characters too. And they would say, “She wouldn’t do that. “ (22:04): So I think that you need to be working with somebody preferably who understands story well, whether that’s an editor or take a real … My first real courses that I took, I mean, I had taken many, but the ones that were really helpful to me were, UCLA has an extension writing program, so you can do that online. And I had really wonderful … I took three or four classes with them. And when I was talking about a writing class prompt, it was from one of those classes that I got this past book started. I really like how they do that. They teach you to give feedback, constructive feedback and to be good at that and to take it. We all have to take feedback and sometimes we don’t like what we’re hearing, but you have to, you learn from your feedback. So if you are not— Debbi (23:01): That’s right. Graciela (23:02): Then … Debbi (23:05): It’s not going to work if you’re not willing to listen to what other people have to say about it, especially people who know how to write, who’ve been there and done it. Graciela (23:16): I know. I know. Debbi (23:17): You’re not doing yourself any favors by ignoring comments. Graciela (23:21): Oh, I know. Well, when I would teach things at the university when I was running an internship program, which is really connected to careers, I designed courses, career management. And one of the projects was to come up with, you had to have a portfolio about what you did, an online portfolio about what you did in your internship. And then I would say, okay, you’re going to be in a team of three people or four or whatever, depending on the number of students I had. And so you don’t have to use their feedback, but if two or three of them said the same thing, it’s pointing something out to you Debbi (23:56): Exactly. Yeah. Graciela (23:58): And that’s probably one of the best advice pieces that I gave to them because they started to figure out, yeah, some’s not working here. And it was a very visual thing because they had to do it online. But it’s like a job that I had right before I retired from regular work was that. I worked at DePaul University, and it was a place where everything I did, my writing, my creating courses and advising people all came together there. So yeah. Debbi (24:28): Yeah. So is there anything you’d like to add before we finish up? Graciela (24:34): Wow. I’m so appreciative that you did this for me. Thank you so much. I really, really liked that. I just thought I like the idea of also suggesting that people, because when I finished this last novel we’ve been talking about, I did have to get beta readers, and that’s very different than don’t just give it to your cousin, your husband, your brother. I think one of the things that I learned is that when you … Beta readers that hopefully also read the kind of genre that you write because they will pick out … They know what readers expect of, for example, a thriller or a crime novel, and they should tell you. And when I did, besides getting those beta readers for The Plans They Made, I also consulted with somebody who lived in London because I thought, “Hey, I put a lot of stuff in there that I thought I heard correctly.” Debbi (25:32): Good idea. Graciela (25:34): And she was wonderful. She says, “Well, I’m your person in London.” And through a good friend of mine who was from England, but not from London, I connected with her and she was wonderful in helping. Debbi (25:46): That’s awesome. Graciela (25:48): Just look for help. I mean, I think sometimes people worry, “Oh, you’re going to copy my story.” No. Debbi (25:55): Nobody’s going to do that. Don’t worry. Graciela (25:57): Yeah. I mean, someone else can be developing the same idea and do something totally different. Debbi (26:04): Different. Yeah. The idea is out there for anyone to use. The prompt was out there for anyone to use. They could have done anything with it. Yeah. So yeah. Graciela (26:18): Yeah. So I mean— Debbi (26:19): We all write individually and differently. Graciela (26:22): Yes, yes. And even when somebody gives you an idea, you get to choose if that’s something that’s going to work for you. And if it does, it does. If it doesn’t, you don’t have to do what people say, but at least listen and consider that. If more than one person says that again, there’s a point. Debbi (26:40): Keeping an open mind. Good idea. Well, thank you so much, Graciela. I really appreciate your being here and spending time with us. Graciela (26:50): Thank you, Debbi. I appreciate the opportunity and hope to see you again in the future somewhere. Debbi (26:57): Yeah, me too. That would be nice. It would be very nice. I would just like to also thank my listeners for listening. And while I’m at it, I will remind you to check out Graciela’s giveaway. She’s giving away a copy of The Plans They Made. I will include a link in the notes to this podcast. And if you enjoyed this episode, please give us a like on your podcast app of choice. I’m trying to speak the language here. I think I’m doing okay. The right language, the language I normally speak in. Our next guest will be Liz Lazarus. I love that name. Until then, take care and happy reading. Be seeing you.
